1st team transfers since 2007

[MrMichael]

Your use of terms like 'distasterous' and '**** ups' indicates that we have a decent amount of agreement, yes

lol

Although.... is that a glib one liner? I think it is, at least on my monitor, now where'd I put the ban stick?

[dww]

Failures

Keane £20m
Dossena £8m
Degen Free

In terms of money spent that's pretty disasterous as I said before. I think we can give N'gog a break, tbh £1.5m looks a very acceptable risk for the lad to me, and I think he could go on to be a pretty decent player in time. Cavalieri seems a perfectly adequate back-up keeper, I think we'd struggle to do much better for someone who is only ever going to play second fiddle, and corrects the Itjande **** up. And Riera, well, jury is still out a bit, he's technically a good player, and I think as good as most other left wingers in the league (who, especially if English, would have cost us significantly more I think), but is he really good enough? That I'm not sure of, but I'm not happy calling him a failure yet though either.

Degen - well, always injured, probably not that good anyway, although he was a free I'll still go with a failure, Dossena is simply rubbish and not as good as the other 2 LB's we had at the club already imo - we could easily have done without either of those signings. And then there's Keane.

Now I know you're talking "unquestionable" successes, and really none of those 6 qualify as that, but I would say only 3 of them really are appropriate to consider in such terms (Dossena, Riera and Keane), and one of those (Riera) still could end up being a pretty good purchase given proper time to prove it (or not as the case may be). Certainly, of £40m spent almost £30m of that was on ****-ups (most of which has been or will be recouped however, but that hardly helps us on the pitch). Once again, not sure we're looking at quantity v quality, just that the players of supposed quality brought in didn't do what we needed them to.

So, basically, the conculsion of my essay is that things aren't quite as black and white as you're making out, and that rather than the issue be quality v quantity, the prime issue in the period you're talking about is one summer where things really went pretty badly wrong in the market.



Oh, and btw, you're sooooo banned if you answer all that with some glib one-liner! :bird:

I think there were a lot of good points you have made in this post. I do however have a feeling that Dossena could still be good for us. I'm 50-50 about whether he was a good move in the sense that we were not desperate for a leftback but considering the youth of Insua and the fragility of Aurelio I think it was certainly justifiable. I actually like the style of player he is even if his early performances in particular were somewhat disastrous.

I still think that the purchases of this summer other than Dossena seem like compromises. I tend to feel that if we had planned the purchases as a set we would have done better - Riera would benefit from having a targetman, Keane would have benefited from alterations that made us play higher up the pitch.

[Craig_H]

lol

Although.... is that a glib one liner? I think it is, at least on my monitor, now where'd I put the ban stick?

It looked to me like it was spread across two lines - at least on my screen anyway

[Craig_H]

No offence dww - but what would a player have to do for you to think he's not any good? Dossena has been consistently shockingly bad. If a player hopped out on one leg and was unable to kick the ball, would you concede that he was useless? Albeit, with good reason

[MrMichael]

I think there were a lot of good points you have made in this post. I do however have a feeling that Dossena could still be good for us. I'm 50-50 about whether he was a good move in the sense that we were not desperate for a leftback but considering the youth of Insua and the fragility of Aurelio I think it was certainly justifiable. I actually like the style of player he is even if his early performances in particular were somewhat disastrous.

I still think that the purchases of this summer other than Dossena seem like compromises. I tend to feel that if we had planned the purchases as a set we would have done better - Riera would benefit from having a targetman, Keane would have benefited from alterations that made us play higher up the pitch.

I take your point, at the time of his signing I thought it could be a good one, if slightly over-pricey, although I feel now that we're unlikely to see him given many more opportunities this season after Insua's recent performances, especially if Aurelio manages to stay fit, and that he may well be returning to Italy in the summer. My question would be whether we would not have been better spending that money on a quality right back - I know we haven't seen much of Degen but there were a lot of surprised European commentators when we signed him simply due to his past performances, and given that Arbeloa has shown himself to be a competent stand-in left back I think we were better covered on that side of the pitch than we have proven to be on the other. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

Otherwise you're right, looking back the business we did last summer seems to have been very piecemeal, rather than part of a masterplan to improve us in the areas we were lacking the previous season.

[Craig_H]

Obsessed with fullbacks, the pair of you

[MrMichael]

It looked to me like it was spread across two lines - at least on my screen anyway

You must be posting from your mobile or something then!

Obsessed with fullbacks, the pair of you

Better than being obsessed with a certain Portuguese manager with a flair for self-promotion....

[Craig_H]

I'm not obsessed with him, i just think his chances of winning the title for us would be especially good.

[Flight]

I think there were a lot of good points you have made in this post. I do however have a feeling that Dossena could still be good for us. I'm 50-50 about whether he was a good move in the sense that we were not desperate for a leftback but considering the youth of Insua and the fragility of Aurelio I think it was certainly justifiable. I actually like the style of player he is even if his early performances in particular were somewhat disastrous.

I still think that the purchases of this summer other than Dossena seem like compromises. I tend to feel that if we had planned the purchases as a set we would have done better - Riera would benefit from having a targetman, Keane would have benefited from alterations that made us play higher up the pitch.

Good post mate.

People are writing off Dossena far too early. Coming from Serie A is going to be hard for any defender to adjust to. He has only played about a dozen games here and he is still Italys first choice left back. He knows what he needs to do and is working hard in training and giving 100%, his attitude is spot on. If he can't make it then we will sell him, but he deserves support while he is here and giving 100%.

[Flight]

We have the best first 11 we have had in two decades.

After four years under Rafa we are now the number one ranked team in Europe by EUFA for the first time since 1985 and Heysel.

We've been top this term for a few months but don't yet have the squad to maintain it.


All that from a position where Ged, Moores and Parry nearly consigned us to being a mid table team, in a league that was a lot weaker. Thinking of sacking Rafa now is mad. We'd go backwards fast.

[Craig_H]

We have the best first 11 we have had in two decades.

After four years under Rafa we are now the number one ranked team in Europe by EUFA for the first time since 1985 and Heysel.

We've been top this term for a few months but don't yet have the squad to maintain it.


All that from a position where Ged, Moores and Parry nearly consigned us to being a mid table team, in a league that was a lot weaker. Thinking of sacking Rafa now is mad. We'd go backwards fast.

When were we nearly a mid table team?

[dww]

No offence dww - but what would a player have to do for you to think he's not any good? Dossena has been consistently shockingly bad. If a player hopped out on one leg and was unable to kick the ball, would you concede that he was useless? Albeit, with good reason

I think that he has improved and I have liked that about him. His initial performances were poor but in his last few outings I have seen little wrong with him. If he has that attitude allied to the odd things he has shown to be good in his game when it works - i.e. willingness to get forward. I disagree that Dossena has consistently been shockingly bad - he certainly started that way and I doubt he will go on to be our Maldini but I do think he has shown willingness to improve and the fact that he has ability to be better than he has shown so far.

I've been a consistent critic of Babel. I admit I tend to give people more of a chance than some. In Dossena, unlike say Lucas who I think has real talent, I think that he could be a useful player with the right attributes for the way we play.

[dww]

I take your point, at the time of his signing I thought it could be a good one, if slightly over-pricey, although I feel now that we're unlikely to see him given many more opportunities this season after Insua's recent performances, especially if Aurelio manages to stay fit, and that he may well be returning to Italy in the summer. My question would be whether we would not have been better spending that money on a quality right back - I know we haven't seen much of Degen but there were a lot of surprised European commentators when we signed him simply due to his past performances, and given that Arbeloa has shown himself to be a competent stand-in left back I think we were better covered on that side of the pitch than we have proven to be on the other. Hindsight is a wonderful thing though.

Otherwise you're right, looking back the business we did last summer seems to have been very piecemeal, rather than part of a masterplan to improve us in the areas we were lacking the previous season.

I just don't see any rightback I would have been overjoyed with us signing (who was reasonably available given our finances). At the time Pompey were still be fairly well financially backed and had Redknapp so Johnson was a less easy target (and I have reservations about him any way). To an extent I think you have to go with the opportunities on the market.

To my mind I think that Degen was bought specifically to add pace from the fullback area. He was a cheap gamble and I do think that we would benefit hugely from having that sort of alternative to Arbeloa. I think Rafa thought he had one first choice, frequently fit, fullback and that was Arbeloa, which is why he concentrated cash on the other flank.

[Flight]

When were we nearly a mid table team?

Poor squad, with many terrible players on lengthy over the top contracts and the club in debt we couldn't afford. Playing the worst football I can remember seeing at Anfield for decades. Struggling to make the Champions League.

Dreadful, dreadful football, going 1-0 down was the end of the game, constantly hoofing it from the back and hoping Owen would feed on scraps. On top of that, we lost Owen and Heskey and brought in Cisse for £14mill.


We were on a massive downward spiral, both in the football we were playing, the quality of our players and constantly losing massive amounts of money on poor signings. 30 points off top wasn't underachieving, that was about our level.



And, as I said, in four years we've gone from that to the number one ranked team in Europe by EUFA for the first time since 1985 and Heysel. Short memories, some of us.

[Tee]

Poor squad, with many terrible players on lengthy over the top contracts and the club in debt we couldn't afford. Playing the worst football I can remember seeing at Anfield for decades. Struggling to make the Champions League.

We were on a massive downward spiral, both in the football we were playing, the quality of our players and constantly losing massive amounts of money on poor signings.

Dreadful, dreadful football, going 1-0 down was the end of the game, constantly hoofing it from the back and hoping Owen would feed on scraps. On top of that, we lost Owen and Heskey and brought in Cisse for £14mill.



And, as I said, in four years we've gone from that to the number one ranked team in Europe by EUFA for the first time since 1985 and Heysel. Short memories, some of us.

Especially the bit about the quality of our football. Houllier totally destroyed the Liverpool pass and move football and we still haven't fully recovered.