1st team transfers since 2007

[Craig_H]

As far as i can see, we've signed 15 players (at a cost of £95m) for the 1st team squad in the last 2 years:

Arbeloa £2.5m
Babel £11m
Benayoun £6m
Degen Free
Dossena £8m
Itandje Free
Keane £20m
Leto £2.5m
Lucas £6.5m
N'gog £1.5m
Plessis Free
Riera £11m
Skrtel £6m
Torres £20m
Voronin Free

Of that 15, how many have been an unquestionable success?

I make it 4 (in bold) and Benayoun might be being generous.

Does that add weight to the 'quantity over quality' criticism or not?

Worrying ratio, given the money spent?

[Tee]

As far as i can see, we've signed 15 players (at a cost of £95m) for the 1st team squad in the last 2 years:

Arbeloa £2.5m
Babel £11m
Benayoun £6m
Degen Free
Dossena £8m
Itandje Free
Keane £20m
Leto £2.5m
Lucas £6.5m
N'gog £1.5m
Plessis Free
Riera £11m
Skrtel £6m
Torres £20m
Voronin Free

Of that 15, how many have been an unquestionable success?

I make it 4. Does that add weight to the 'quantity over quality' criticism or not?

Worrying ratio, given the money spent?

The most worrying stat is that if you take out Torres and Keane that is just 45 million for 13 players who have beyond a shadow of a doubt made our squad a lot stronger - ****in genius that Rafa tbf.

[Craig_H]

The most worrying stat is that if you take out Torres and Keane that is just 45 million for 13 players who have beyond a shadow of a doubt made our squad a lot stronger - ****in genius that Rafa tbf.

I think it'd be £55m in truth, but that aside - we've spent £55m on 13 players, only 3 of which at most have been successes and the rest have all been either average or have failed - if you take out Yossi, Skrtel and Arbeloa & their values, that leaves over £40m worth of average or failed signings. Surely we'd have been better off having not signed most of them and just used their predecessors at virtually none of the cost?

[Tee]

I think it'd be £55m in truth, but that aside - we've spent £55m on 13 players, only 3 of which at most have been successes and the rest have all been either average or have failed - if you take out Yossi, Skrtel and Arbeloa & their values, that leaves over £40m worth of average or failed signings. Surely we'd have been better off having not signed most of them and just used their predecessors at virtually none of the cost?

How do you know who is going to be successful? You don't - every new signing carries that risk, be it Torres or Ngog.

At least Rafa is quick to get rid, and generally our net spending per season is pretty low for a club of our size and resources, competing at the top level for all the major honours.

[Craig_H]

How do you know who is going to be successful? You don't - every new signing carries that risk, be it Torres or Ngog.

At least Rafa is quick to get rid, and generally our net spending per season is pretty low for a club of our size and resources, competing at the top level for all the major honours.

I'm not saying you know - of course not, but it's about judgement and managers generally live or die by their own judgement. Whether it's in terms of team selections, formations, substitutions or in this case, transfers.

4 out of 15 is poor, by anyone's standards.

[Tee]

I'm not saying you know - of course not, but it's about judgement and managers generally live or die by their own judgement. Whether it's in terms of team selections, formations, substitutions or in this case, transfers.

4 out of 15 is poor, by anyone's standards.

Sure, but if you are signing players to compete at the very top level you would expect to be spending a lot more than Rafa has been allowed to.

Rafa has generally signed players the other big clubs in Europe would not even be too concerned about - he has probably had to beat clubs like Boro and Villa to their signatures.

I would say he is a very good judge of a player - if he was able to sign his top targets we could have had a team including Alves, Villa, Vidicand Simao.

[Craig_H]

Sure, but if you are signing players to compete at the very top level you would expect to be spending a lot more than Rafa has been allowed to.

Rafa has generally signed players the other big clubs in Europe would not even be too concerned about - he has probably had to beat clubs like Boro and Villa to their signatures.

I would say he is a very good judge of a player - if he was able to sign his top targets we could have had a team including Alves, Villa, Vidicand Simao.

Even though many of his signings havent been '1st choice targets', he's still gone on to sign them - which means he must have thought they were good players, as he wouldnt knowingly sign ****e players. Especially not ones he's spending £6m-£12m on.

Given that 11 out of the 15 signings havent been successful, it suggests his judgement is questionable. I doubt he would've considered Lucas & Dossena (for example) to be ****e and still signed them - Rafa obviously thought they'd be good, but his judgement wasnt on the money there.

[rudedog]

two things

1. Is there a reason why you're only looking at the past 2 years?

2. You haven't included Mascherano

[Tee]

So you agree that he has had to compromise with his signings due to financial restrictions?

How would the Special One cope with that?

[Craig_H]

two things

1. Is there a reason why you're only looking at the past 2 years?

2. You haven't included Mascherano

1 - this stemmed from a discussion i was having with a few people and the general feeling was that 2 years without winning anything was as much as a truly top team should go - that's where 2 years came from.

2 - fair point, my bad. That changes it to 5 out of 16 - 31%. Still a woeful ratio.

[Craig_H]

So you agree that he has had to compromise with his signings due to financial restrictions?

How would the Special One cope with that?

He had to choose whether he wanted quantity or quality and he chose quantity.

I feel that Mourinho would've made a different choice, personally. Or if he hadnt, he would've got much more out of the 'average' players.

This isnt a debate about Jose Mourinho though, and while i personally have no problem mentioning him in this thread, i dont want to be accused of filling 'every thread' with talk of Mourinho and pissing people off by doing so.

[rudedog]

what about Insua? For £1.3m, the lad looks like a success so far.

[Tee]

He had to choose whether he wanted quantity or quality and he chose quantity.

I feel that Mourinho would've made a different choice, personally. Or if he hadnt, he would've got much more out of the 'average' players.

This isnt a debate about Jose Mourinho though, and while i personally have no problem mentioning him in this thread, i dont want to be accused of filling 'every thread' with talk of Mourinho and pissing people off by doing so.

Fair enough.

As far as I can see it is clear that Rafa has preferred to bolster the squad rather than sign 1 or 2 big players to really strengthen the first team. On that point I can only agree with you, but then Rafa can easily argue that the squad now is stronger than it was 2 years ago, without a doubt IMO.

[Craig_H]

what about Insua? For £1.3m, the lad looks like a success so far.

I wouldnt call a player with about 5 first team appearances an 'unquestionable success'.

[Craig_H]

Fair enough.

As far as I can see it is clear that Rafa has preferred to bolster the squad rather than sign 1 or 2 big players to really strengthen the first team. On that point I can only agree with you, but then Rafa can easily argue that the squad now is stronger than it was 2 years ago, without a doubt IMO.

Stronger to what effect though?

2 years ago we were failing to challenge properly for the title and finishing 3rd or 4th.

This season, we're failing to challenge properly for the title and will most likely finish 3rd or 4th.