Now, i wasnt one for jumping on the bandwagon, but...

[Skillz]

"Now, i wasnt one for jumping on the bandwagon, but... "

made me

No offense but it's a stupid stat and a stupid thread. If you can't work out why it's a stupid stat you shouldn't talk about stats.

[Red_Polo]

Oh well if Polo wont talk, might as well delete the thread

Nah, it's a fair point Polo. TBH, i dont have those figures to hand and SSN didnt actually put them up, so i dont know.

I think it's a bit naive to just dismiss the issue though, not saying that's what you're doing, but if we as a collective just said "No no, there's nothing wrong" and didnt look at the issue, i think that'd be too dismissive. It never hurts to analyze which areas we might be able to improve on.

Sure, I'm not being dismissive, I just don't see any point whatsoever discussing it based around that stat.

[Skillz]

Sure, I'm not being dismissive, I just don't see any point whatsoever discussing it based around that stat.

And you're right to dismiss it. It's a ridiculous stat.

If we started a thread "Can we improve our set piece defending" it would have merit. Using a stupid stat thrown up by Sky which is clearly flawed just does my head in.

[Exiled_red]

I haven't seen the table of stats but I would guess that all the bigger teams would have a higher percentage of goals conceded from set pieces simply because these sides don't concede many goals from open play. The poorer sides who get torn apart every week will concede alot more goals from open play which scews the figure in the opposite way to us.

The best way to compare defending of set pieces from team to team is to get stats on all set pieces delivered into the box and see how many are cleared by the defending team, how many are score and how many result in headers on goal.

I haven't seen any such stats but I don't think we are the worst team for this, we just seem to have this discussion when we concede a couple of goals from set pieces

[SB]

To my way of thinking, the importance should not be placed so much on the precentage rather the number of goals conceded from set pieces.

If we concede say 10 goals from set pieces from a yearlly total of 20 goals the stat looks terrible. The Bitters say may conced 15 goals from set pieces from a yearlly total of 35 goals and their percentage looks better but in fact tells us nothing.( other than they are ****e which we already know )

[Skillz]

I haven't seen the table of stats but I would guess that all the bigger teams would have a higher percentage of goals conceded from set pieces simply because these sides don't concede many goals from open play. The poorer sides who get torn apart every week will concede alot more goals from open play which scews the figure in the opposite way to us.

The best way to compare defending of set pieces from team to team is to get stats on all set pieces delivered into the box and see how many are cleared by the defending team, how many are score and how many result in headers on goal.

I haven't seen any such stats but I don't think we are the worst team for this, we just seem to have this discussion when we concede a couple of goals from set pieces

Congratulations. I bet you're a rocket scientest

[Craig_H]

And you're right to dismiss it. It's a ridiculous stat.

If we started a thread "Can we improve our set piece defending" it would have merit. Using a stupid stat thrown up by Sky which is clearly flawed just does my head in.

Right. So there might be an issue with our defending of corners, but because a stat was mentioned, there isnt an issue to discuss?

The fact is, we're looking very vulnerable when defending corners and as i've said, it's not something i'd just dismiss with a 'nothing is wrong' tone.

Sure, I'm not being dismissive, I just don't see any point whatsoever discussing it based around that stat.

Ok, forget the 'stat'.

How about discussing the issue based around conceding virtually identical goals on more than one occasion this season, courtesy of Cahill and now Ivanovic?

Or if not, at what point is it worth looking at?

[Ben_Itez]

That stat does little but show how good we are defending from open play.

However, we definitely need to improve our defending from set pieces and hope we'll be spending a lot of time in training practicing.

I'm not convinced Skrtel is that great in the air and if you take Hyppia out of the equation we havent that many players that are that great in the air. Our midfield players arent too hot and our full backs are pretty average too. Up against a team with several aerial threats then i think we'll struggle consistently.

[Vermilion]

Well, i reckon we're punching above our weight, compared to our direct rivals that is, i still just don't see our squad as being anywhere near as good YET, we lack the numbers of really big name big game players compared to the the two sides that generally stand in our way.

The odds at the start of every season reflect this fact too imo.

But i believe we're getting there, it's always going to be a challenge when our rivals can add players like 'David Villa' etc almost at a whim, but that's the reality and we've just got to make the best of it till it changes.

[bertie]

SSN put up an interesting stat today.

I've never had a problem with our zonal marking system, i've always said that it's not the system, it's how well you perform it. And i still stand by that.

However, according to SSN, we have the highest percentage in terms of how many goals conceded have come from set piece situations. Ours is the highest in the PL.

It was something like 47% of all goals conceded by Liverpool, have come from set pieces.

Is there actually an issue there? Not with zonal marking, but maybe with how good we actually are at it?

If not, is that stat a concern at all? I dont like the idea of us being 'top' of that particular table.

Lies, damned lies & statistics. I know what your saying but 47% of how many goals? (I know its 21 in the lge). In the lge, Arsenal have conceded 27 goals this season, whats their % ? Hows about Villa. 39 goals. Whats their % from set pieces? You concede goals. Not % of goals.

My point is that all that happened on Wednesday night was that players didn't do their job. They made a mistake. Thats the same thing that usually happens when a goal is conceced. Yet no-one (in the media) seems willing to state this obvious fact. Its plainly obvious they were just looking to stick it to Rafa again & (since we've been battering teams this past month were unable to do so) have delighted in the Chelsea win the other night.

[Skillz]

Right. So there might be an issue with our defending of corners, but because a stat was mentioned, there isnt an issue to discuss?

The fact is, we're looking very vulnerable when defending corners and as i've said, it's not something i'd just dismiss with a 'nothing is wrong' tone.

The system is fine. The players need a slap or two to wake up, but the system is fine. I sure Rafa and Sammy will deliver said slap if it hasn't already been given.

Fact is we concede **** all goals in general. Most teams hardly make a half arsed attempt at scoring in open play against. Their ONLY threat is set pieces. So it makes sense that the few goals we do concede are largely from set pieces.

The top 4 have either in the main excellant defensive units, hence they rarely give up a chance in open play. The other 16 teams have decent defences and shambolic ones. They concede goals from set pieces, open play, free kicks, penalties and corners.

They spread their uselessness in all departments of defending.

We don't, in the main we are ****ing boss defensively.

[Craig_H]

Well Chelsea are better than us defensively, and the mancs are about the same.

[Liverpool]

Can't tell much of anything from the percentage. Tell me the numbers conceded from set-pieces by all the teams and then we'll talk.

twisted facts to suite the needs of ssn.

[calvoboy]

Whose questioning the method? I'm questioning the coaching of the method. I said there seems to be both systems implemented especially yesterday; its confusing for the defenders as it doesn't give those on the six yard line a fair chance to charge and head the ball like they would if it were two banks of four or five in the zonal system.

We use different variations for different teams. Against the top sides we seem to go for a hybrid system, with 4 or 5 defenders on the 6 yard line defending zonally, and the others tracking runners. Against other teams it's fully zonal with everyone allocated a zone to protect. I'm sure there are quite a few more subtle variations that are used too on where players stand to defend depending on the opposition's strength.

I'm guessing that Hiddink spotted that when we go for the hybrid system we have a weakness on the 6 yard line as we haven't got enough good headers of the ball. It still took perfect delivery from the corner and perfect timing and execution on the header though. On another night we'd have gotten away with it.

Generally speaking, I think zonal marking on corners and free-kicks has made us much better at defending them over the last few years. It looks awful though when it goes wrong, as the goals against are always free headers from less than 8 yards.

[MrMichael]

Well Chelsea are better than us defensively, and the mancs are about the same.

Haven't we scored more goals than them though? Overall it would be hard to ask a lot more of our goal difference.

Individual errors will cost any team goals in a season. Its unfortunate that for us in a few games those errors have occurred at corners. And yeah, I do think in our case its more down to the practice of the system rather than the system itself. In general however our defending is pretty good, and if we fail to win the league this year I think far more people would blame a few silly 0-0's at home when we have been lacking offensively more than the number of goals we've conceded from corners.