Why are we playing so well?

[Charly]

****!

In my defence, it was pretty late...

I think what I was trying to say in my drunken stupor was that Rafa has managed to get the best out of the squad tactically, while keeping us in a bit of a straight jacket. But since the win against ManUre, he seems to have taken the gloves off a bit, and let the players play. Im not entirely convinced that thats how he wants us to play. He likes to keep it tight, but I think he may have recognised that you have to take risks if you are to win the league against team like the Mancs and Chelsea (who I believe have stronger teams).

I think the point I was trying to make was that I am worried that if our form doesnt carry, or come next season, Rafa will return to the cautiousness that has cost us so many home points, as its quite clear, even with Kuyt booting them over from 6 yards, that we are capable of scoring without Gerrard or Torres. But when we start playing more cautiously, we rely too much on those two. The difference for me now is that all of the midfielders and fullbacks are breaking forward a lot more.

Hope that puts my point across a bit better.

I wasnt meaning to have a dig at Rafa. I think he is the best manager we have had since Dalglish (although I reckon he lacks man-management skills - you cant argue with his record)

[Leyton388]

Because we are Liverpool football club

[RedReet]

****!

In my defence, it was pretty late...

I think what I was trying to say in my drunken stupor was that Rafa has managed to get the best out of the squad tactically, while keeping us in a bit of a straight jacket. But since the win against ManUre, he seems to have taken the gloves off a bit, and let the players play. Im not entirely convinced that thats how he wants us to play. He likes to keep it tight, but I think he may have recognised that you have to take risks if you are to win the league against team like the Mancs and Chelsea (who I believe have stronger teams).

I think the point I was trying to make was that I am worried that if our form doesnt carry, or come next season, Rafa will return to the cautiousness that has cost us so many home points, as its quite clear, even with Kuyt booting them over from 6 yards, that we are capable of scoring without Gerrard or Torres. But when we start playing more cautiously, we rely too much on those two. The difference for me now is that all of the midfielders and fullbacks are breaking forward a lot more.

Hope that puts my point across a bit better.

I wasnt meaning to have a dig at Rafa. I think he is the best manager we have had since Dalglish (although I reckon he lacks man-management skills - you cant argue with his record)

Don’t think I’ve ever read as many anti-Liverpool clichés in one post. I read them every day in the paper, on here and see then on Sky Sports, but never so many put together at once.

[einar]

I agree with the original poster in that I think motivation is probably Rafas only weakness, if you can call it that. There is a confidence that borders on arrogance in the title winning teams of the last few years. He has said in the past that he wants to have players who are natural winners. It almost sounds like he does not want to have to motivate them much, the desire to win should already be in them. I think we are seeing a change in the attitude of our players in the last few weeks and it seems to me that their confidence is being built up gradually. They are finding their believe in them selves, it is not just being told to them.

As for the tactics it is IMO very wrong to assume anything in terms of what Rafa will do tactically in the future. He is constantly learning and trying to improve and he will never be happy because he is constantly looking for perfection. I think if he gets enough backing that there is very little chance that we will see the kind of tactics and football we saw in the last 4 seasons.

[Charly]

Don’t think I’ve ever read as many anti-Liverpool clichés in one post. I read them every day in the paper, on here and see then on Sky Sports, but never so many put together at once.

Why are they anti-liverpool? I suppose you think I am a closet Manc? I am just underling where I believe we can improve them team. Are you a better fan if you think we are perfect, without weakness?

They are true, and perhaps cliched, but true nonetheless.

[Charly]

As for the tactics it is IMO very wrong to assume anything in terms of what Rafa will do tactically in the future. He is constantly learning and trying to improve and he will never be happy because he is constantly looking for perfection. I think if he gets enough backing that there is very little chance that we will see the kind of tactics and football we saw in the last 4 seasons.

Rafa can out think any manager tactically. Of that I believe he is the best in the world. But I dont want a team that is just superior tactically, but superior in terms of skill and ability. Unfortunately, we dont have the cash to match tat ambition.

[Charly]

I agree with the original poster....

At least someone appreciates me... Is that you, mum?

[einar]

Rafa can out think any manager tactically. Of that I believe he is the best in the world. But I dont want a team that is just superior tactically, but superior in terms of skill and ability. Unfortunately, we dont have the cash to match tat ambition.

I don't think there is anything wrong with Rafas vision in terms of skill and ability. You only have to look at his first choice signings to see that. What I agree with you on is that his approach to motivation seems to be different to Ferguson or Mauriniho. It seems to have not worked as well as one would have liked but I think we have to see in the long term how the team develops if/when Rafa gets his first choice targets in most of the time.

[einar]

At least someone appreciates me... Is that you, mum?

Your mum looks good.

[Neil Young]

Why are they anti-liverpool? I suppose you think I am a closet Manc? I am just underling where I believe we can improve them team. Are you a better fan if you think we are perfect, without weakness?

They are true, and perhaps cliched, but true nonetheless.

No, they aren't necessarily true. You seem to have mixed up your own beliefs, based perhaps on swallowing large parts of newspapers whole, with truth.

Strange.

[dww]

****!

In my defence, it was pretty late...

I think what I was trying to say in my drunken stupor was that Rafa has managed to get the best out of the squad tactically, while keeping us in a bit of a straight jacket. But since the win against ManUre, he seems to have taken the gloves off a bit, and let the players play. Im not entirely convinced that thats how he wants us to play. He likes to keep it tight, but I think he may have recognised that you have to take risks if you are to win the league against team like the Mancs and Chelsea (who I believe have stronger teams).

I think the point I was trying to make was that I am worried that if our form doesnt carry, or come next season, Rafa will return to the cautiousness that has cost us so many home points, as its quite clear, even with Kuyt booting them over from 6 yards, that we are capable of scoring without Gerrard or Torres. But when we start playing more cautiously, we rely too much on those two. The difference for me now is that all of the midfielders and fullbacks are breaking forward a lot more.

Hope that puts my point across a bit better.

I wasnt meaning to have a dig at Rafa. I think he is the best manager we have had since Dalglish (although I reckon he lacks man-management skills - you cant argue with his record)

I have to say I have always thought that the plan for rafa is that when we have confidence and get the system to work right we will be more expansive and we have done so at either end of the season. With admittedly much more effect recently.

There was a report before the CL games with Chelsea dug up that talked of the last time Rafa and Hiddink managed against one another. It was when Rafa was at a small team in Spain and he got well beaten but was given huge praise for his attacking attitude and commitment to a attractive style of play. I don't think the desire for that to happen has gone i think though that he has found over the years that a solid base defensively is more likely to win games and hence prioritised that ahead of flair as the basis for his teams.

I think every season he has been in the PL he has slightly adapted his methods attempting to improve how they perform here. This year he has slightly pushed the emphasis onto attack. There is no reason to believe that given our greater success this term that he will abandon this at all.

All teams rely on their best attacking players but given the amount of goals and assists Benayoun and Kuyt have this season your analysis seems someone flawed in suggesting we more than anyone else relies on our top player to do all of our attacking. In fact we have a 100% record without either Gerrard or Torres in the team in the league I think (I admit it is a small sample ~4 games).

I'm not 100% sure about this claim that Rafa is a bad man manager. I think he prefers to take a longer term approach based on personal responsibility and his one on one skills being mostly employed with the coaching staff. But over time I think we have seen that some players like Gerrard now do play 'for' Rafa. he isn't the traditional ranter and raver or arm round teh shoulder stereotype but I do think that in the end his methods seem more often than not pretty effective.

[tsb]

We are putting our chances away. The End.

[Will]

Cos were a good side lol I think Rafa has let them of leash alittle and they can express themselves more.

[RedReet]

Why are they anti-liverpool? I suppose you think I am a closet Manc? I am just underling where I believe we can improve them team. Are you a better fan if you think we are perfect, without weakness?

They are true, and perhaps cliched, but true nonetheless.

I never said you were anti-Liverpool, just the points you’ve made have been done to death over and over again in articles, posts, discussions that aren’t exactly pro-Rafa/Liverpool. I found them tedious and boring during the season, and at this stage just strange.


Your original post showed that you don’t exactly trust Rafa or his methods, and rather than explain why, you’ve just used the same old stereotypes to back up your point.

Obviously there is some substance in the points you were making otherwise they wouldn’t have been discussed so often but you haven’t exactly explained how you personally think it affects the team.

No, they aren't necessarily true. You seem to have mixed up your own beliefs, based perhaps on swallowing large parts of newspapers whole, with truth.

Strange.

That's what I'm getting at.