Gerrard praises Rafa's man-management

[red g]

[QUOTE=dww;1333678]I think it is difficult in such cases to say whether the man management is the problem. For example Barton has undermined his talent whatever style of manager he has been under. Ideally to make the point about Rafa it would be good to have a player who had underperformed here and improved under a different management style after leaving.[/QUOTE

Keane?

[dww]

Potentially a very good example, but for me there are too many confounding factors to be convinced that it is a representative one.

[red g]

Potentially a very good example, but for me there are too many confounding factors to be convinced that it is a representative one.

i dont think there is any manager in the world who gets the best out of all there players.

What is interesting though and i think its probably had an effect on the whole club is that our talisman, club captain and a player who over the last 10 years could rightly say ' he is bigger than lfc ' is actually on Rafa's side whereas only 2/3 seasons ago there was almost a rafa v stevie scenario.

to be its obvious if your a winner with a winning mentality you cant help but admire Rafa for his obsession

[einar]

A big part of this whole thing is to get the right players in. That is why managers need time.

[badpiggy]

i've seriously wondered about rafa's ability to get the max out of certain players and is man-management style but it might just be as simple as if you're the type that needs the arm around the shoulder etc... rafa jst isn't into it and doubts your ability to dig deep and pull yourself up when needed. he wants intelligent, unselfish self-motivators and if you can't handle that, you're not going to fit in to rafa's idea of a team. i know i defended him at the time but the robbie keane situation may have been a partial example of this.

and one thing i guess we tend to forget is that you must have some sort of motivational ability to get the relentless 90 minute performances that we give even when we lose or aren't being particularly creative.

[Craig_H]

I think it is difficult in such cases to say whether the man management is the problem. For example Barton has undermined his talent whatever style of manager he has been under. Ideally to make the point about Rafa it would be good to have a player who had underperformed here and improved under a different management style after leaving.

Your choice of Barton as an example is a freakishly weird one.

No management style could legislate for mindless thugs and ****tery.

As for your last point - Robbie Keane, perhaps?

[Craig_H]

i've seriously wondered about rafa's ability to get the max out of certain players and is man-management style but it might just be as simple as if you're the type that needs the arm around the shoulder etc... rafa jst isn't into it and doubts your ability to dig deep and pull yourself up when needed. he wants intelligent, unselfish self-motivators and if you can't handle that, you're not going to fit in to rafa's idea of a team. i know i defended him at the time but the robbie keane situation may have been a partial example of this.

and one thing i guess we tend to forget is that you must have some sort of motivational ability to get the relentless 90 minute performances that we give even when we lose or aren't being particularly creative.

That's exactly what i think it is.

[dww]

i dont think there is any manager in the world who gets the best out of all there players.

What is interesting though and i think its probably had an effect on the whole club is that our talisman, club captain and a player who over the last 10 years could rightly say ' he is bigger than lfc ' is actually on Rafa's side whereas only 2/3 seasons ago there was almost a rafa v stevie scenario.

to be its obvious if your a winner with a winning mentality you cant help but admire Rafa for his obsession

Fair point about there not being any manager who gets the best out of everyone. The point is though that the accusation leveled at Rafa is that compared to other managers he gets less out of players (or some subsets of players) because his man management style is poor.

To back up such an interpretation I think we need some examples of players who have failed to deliver with us and have elsewhere specifically those where the style elsewhere is obviously different. I accept that Keane could be one such example but I think the problem is that Rafa wasn't sold on him which puts him in a different category, one in which you would expect him to struggle no matter which manager.

I'm not sure that there is much evidence of him being a notably worse man manager than any other top manager.

[Craig_H]

Nobody's saying he's a worse man manager though, you're mistaken on that.

The point is that rafa's management style is one whereby he only really has time for players who are automatically motivated and focused, hardworking and with a team first ethic.

Players who have insecurities and who need an arm around the shoulder are ones he doesnt really have much time for and any player who lets being dropped lower his head, will have little or no future under Rafa. Those who complain or get upset with being taken off, arent his type. See examples A & B - Babel and Keane.

Players who get their head up, knuckle down, work hard and stay professional despite being out of favour, he has time for and they will generally be the type of player he wants. Examples - Benayoun, Dossena and Lucas. Obviously though, if Rafa feels the player is useless, no amount of good attitude will rescue the player's career.

[red g]

Fair point about there not being any manager who gets the best out of everyone. The point is though that the accusation leveled at Rafa is that compared to other managers he gets less out of players (or some subsets of players) because his man management style is poor.
To back up such an interpretation I think we need some examples of players who have failed to deliver with us and have elsewhere specifically those where the style elsewhere is obviously different. I accept that Keane could be one such example but I think the problem is that Rafa wasn't sold on him which puts him in a different category, one in which you would expect him to struggle no matter which manager.

I'm not sure that there is much evidence of him being a notably worse man manager than any other top manager.

i park with that with other xenophobic bollox ie

a) rafa is arrogant
b) zonal system is rubbish
c) buys **** players
d) doesnt understand the premiership
e) man management is crap
f) defensive manager
g) power freak

etc etc......the fact for me is Rafa is a winner and the more we buy into his philosophy the more the club will benefit

Its plain to see that there is a real warmth and funny side to Rafa that probably not many see and its self evident by how many clubs would take him that he is quite frankly one of the best managers in the world.

[Neil Young]

Well said.

[dww]

People constantly say it though - even if not in this thread.

I remain unconvinced that the players that have failed under Rafa wouldn't fail at any other top club. In fact I think Babel has just never been as good as people thought and that if his opinions were as rumoured Ayesteran called that one right.

[dww]

i park with that with other xenophobic bollox ie

a) rafa is arrogant
b) zonal system is rubbish
c) buys **** players
d) doesnt understand the premiership
e) man management is crap
f) defensive manager
g) power freak

etc etc......the fact for me is Rafa is a winner and the more we buy into his philosophy the more the club will benefit

Its plain to see that there is a real warmth and funny side to Rafa that probably not many see and its self evident by how many clubs would take him that he is quite frankly one of the best managers in the world.

[red g]

[QUOTE=dww;1333761]People constantly say it though - even if not in this thread.

I remain unconvinced that the players that have failed under Rafa wouldn't fail at any other top club. In fact I think Babel has just never been as good as people thought and that if his opinions were as rumoured Ayesteran called that one right.[/QUOTE]

bang on the money with that comment.......if i here one more time that he would have flourished under wenger

the reality some players just dont fulfill there promise specially coming to another country.....

and wenger has many a failure under his belt to

[Craig_H]

I love the way people completely dismiss things when they dont like the prospect.