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Liverpool FC owners lose £42.6m

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    #91
    Originally posted by James P View Post
    Okay, in the interests of getting some real answers rather than continuing to deal in conjecture, I've got hold of a set of the Kop Football (Holdings) Limited accounts, and there are a number of things that are worth reporting.

    Firstly, the group acutally made a profit before player amortisation and trading, and interest, of £25.9m. Player amortisation and trading led to a loss of £31.6m (£45.9m in expenses, £14.3m gain on disposal of player registrations). Overall, therefore, there was a £5.7m loss before interest and tax, and the £36.5m of interest costs, plus a £1.6m tax bill and some sundry other investment income, took us to the £42.6m loss being bandied around.

    What this means is that if player amortisation and trading had been neutral, then the loss would have only been £11m, which would hardly raise the same level of concern.

    For those of you who aren't members of Accountants.com, player amortisation is the write-down of a player's value over the life of his contract. In simple terms, what this means is that if we sign a player for £10m on a 5 year contract, that £10m goes onto the balance sheet as an asset. Each year the value of that asset is reduced by £2m (i.e. one fifth) and that reduction goes to the profit and loss account as a £2m hit so that by the end of his contract, his value is zero. Changes in contract length (i.e. contract extensions) obviously require a recalculation of the asset life and annual charge.

    When a player is sold, we obviously get the cash proceeds, but the accounting entries may be very different. If the player was bought for £10m on a five year contract, kept for three years and then sold for £5m, we'd all view that as a £5m loss. However, for accounting purposes, that would equate to a £1m profit (£10m less 3 years at £2m per year equals £4m - this is the player's amortised value).

    Before anyone points out to me that this is vastly oversimplified, and ignores the notion of residual value, I know - but it gives the basic principles.

    Anyway, back to the details. Looking a little deeper, the total charge for amortisation of intangible assets (players and goodwill on the purchase of the football club) is £54.3m - namely more than the total loss. Furthermore, depreciation on tangible assets is £14.5m.

    The club itself actually turned a 8.1m loss in 2007 tinto a £10m in 2008, so the news is far from all bad.

    Bank loans total £269.3m, of which £185m is secured by means of letters of credit and personal guarantees from the owners - i.e. LFC may be servicing the cost of the debt, but the majority of it is secured against Gillett and Hicks, not LFC. A further £58.2m is owed to Kop Football (Cayman) Limited, a company owned by Gillett and Hicks, and repayment cannot be demanded if to do so would force the company into administration. Interest accrues on that loan at 10% per annum (£2.4m in 2008), but none has been paid over to the Cayman company as at 31 July 2008.

    One other interesting point - there were £19.8m of additional contingent transfer fees owed, and £11.6m potentially due, if certain conditions were met.

    In short, these accounts aren't great, but they aren't the disaster waiting to happen that some parts of the media would have us believe. The high interest costs are not ideal, but it as much down to the fact that the club has bought a number of players, and sold others at a lower value, that the company is reporting such a loss. The refinancing issue is key (IMO the SOS protest is counter-productive posturing, as it means nothing in the real world), but even if the refinancing is granted a sale seems inevitable unless Hicks and/or Gillett can raise some serious cash by disposing of other assets, and use it to help to fund a new stadium or substantially reduce the debt burden.

    I hope this post is more useful than boring!
    Thanks a million for this post
    Anybody who criticizes Klopp ever is a James Blunt. Nov 2015
    #****CITY

    Comment


      #92
      Aye, cheers JP.
      3rd place. Worst champions ever.

      Comment


        #93
        Originally posted by dom9 View Post
        Er, have I missed something here?

        How is sending the Club into administration (and a 20 point penalty) going to help anybody?

        If there is no finance available, that is exacty what would happen. Wake up.
        It's a 10 point penalty (isn't it?), and RBS likely wouldn't call in the loans on Liverpool with such short notice as to make it impossible for H&G to sell, they'll always look for a way out of it without using administration. I mean, they could put us into admin if they wanted, but they won't.

        Look at how long Setanta have been teetering on the edge.

        In principle, I agree with your post though.
        Last edited by TheStig; 08-06-09, 08:45 PM.

        Comment


          #94
          Good post, James P

          While hardly catastrophic, the accounts indicate that we can neither afford to continue strengthening the team, and are in no position to build a new stadium. We are simply stuck with what we have now.

          To think under Moores we were virtually debt free, and could have afforded to fund a stadium, leaving us in about the same levels of debt we are in now, with an extra 15-20k tickets sold each game.

          It isso frustrating, especially with Rafa so close to taking this team to greatness.
          In the beginning, Fowler created the Heaven and the Earth.

          Comment


            #95
            Originally posted by -V- View Post
            Stop stop stop stop!!!!!!!!!!!!! Will you idiots please stop blindly following SOS.

            The last thing we need is for RBS to refuse to refinance and leave us screwed in adminstration FFS!
            And when things go tits up at the club, these are the ones who will be fighting tooth and nail to voice their opinion.

            What will you be doing??

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by Shanks007 View Post
              And when things go tits up at the club, these are the ones who will be fighting tooth and nail to voice their opinion.

              What will you be doing??
              Or they could drive us into administration and thus send us into the ****ing championship once weve been asset-stripped

              Comment


                #97
                Originally posted by -V- View Post
                Or they could drive us into administration and thus send us into the ****ing championship once weve been asset-stripped
                SOS?

                So you think by approaching RBS they may be responsible for putting LFC into admin??

                Comment


                  #98
                  Im saying its not very clever to start a campaign to get us put into administration ffs

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Cheers for all your positive comments, guys, and I'm glad that you found the info useful.

                    It's going to be interesting few months, and I'm not convinced that, even if they do manage to agree a refinancing, G & H might not decide that it's better to get out while the club is on a relative high. Plus I'm thinking that the refinancing deal may well not be for that long (12-24 months) as any lender is likely to want to keep a close eye on developments, and their options open re calling in their money.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by James P View Post
                      Cheers for all your positive comments, guys, and I'm glad that you found the info useful.

                      It's going to be interesting few months, and I'm not convinced that, even if they do manage to agree a refinancing, G & H might not decide that it's better to get out while the club is on a relative high. Plus I'm thinking that the refinancing deal may well not be for that long (12-24 months) as any lender is likely to want to keep a close eye on developments, and their options open re calling in their money.
                      They have refinanced at 6 monthly intervals so far.

                      I'm not still sure why they didn't take the £20M each from DIC when they had the chance. Was it sheer greed, or maybe they really want to be in it for the long haul.
                      Oh I don't know.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by dom9 View Post
                        I'm not still sure why they didn't take the £20M each from DIC when they had the chance. Was it sheer greed, or maybe they really want to be in it for the long haul.
                        I think they'd like us to think it's the latter, but I honestly think that it's the former.

                        Comment


                          Anyone who wants to take this further, drop me an email at [email protected] - i'm writing an article for Bloomberg, an american news agency about this. your chance to tell the american public what liverpool fans feel about hicks and gillett...

                          Comment




                            Liverpool owner George Gillett has received a takeover bid for 24-time NHL Stanley Cup champions the Montreal Canadiens.

                            The club is estimated to be worth in excess of $300 million. According for Bloomberg Geoff Molson, a 38-year-old director of the Canadiens and owner of North American brewers Molson Coors Brewing Company, is leading an investor group.

                            “We have assembled a very solid and credible group of investors and financial institutions as part of our offer,” said Molson in a statement. “We think our offer has all the ingredients to be well received by the potential seller and the National Hockey League.”

                            It was revealed two months ago that Gillett was considering the sale of his sporting assets including the Canadiens and his share in Premier League club Liverpool. Alongside Liverpool he also has interests in the Richard Petty Motorsports NASCAR team and the Gillett Entertainment Group.

                            Last year Gillett said he was prepared to sell his holding in Liverpool to Dubai International Capital but a proposed deal fell through
                            _____________________________________

                            Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?

                            Think we have the answer..Slot!!

                            Comment


                              Didn't know where to put this, no need for another thread. Maybe we'll end up with Gillett and another with Hicks bought out to some degree at least if he can't find a buyer for his US teams.

                              Liverpool FC: Tom Hicks admits to real financial problems
                              07 July 2009 | By Adam Fraser

                              Tom Hicks, owner of Liverpool FC, the Texas Rangers and the Dallas Stars, has dissolved Hicks Sports Marketing Group (HSMG) and split its employees between the Rangers and the Stars. The Hicks Sports Marketing Group website is already offline.

                              HSMG was formed in 2006, primarily to sell corporate advertising and sponsorship for Hicks’ sports franchises. With finances forcing the American businessman into selling the Rangers - once a suitable buyer can be found - the group appears to have outlived its usefulness. That is certainly Hicks’ version of events: “It’s a natural progression where there isn’t a need for that service, so we’re streamlining the company,“ he said. “This makes sense for a number of reasons.“

                              However, the impact the move will have on Hicks’ other franchises is unknown. He has admitted to serious difficulties attracting new investment in the franchises.

                              “You can’t continue to spend money if the team is losing money,“ he said. “We are determined to create as much revenue as possible for each team, and that’s one of the reasons we have changed things. One of our biggest challenges right now is to find ways to market and sell our teams.“

                              Jim Lites, president of HSMG, is keen on being part of a takeover bid for the Rangers.

                              * Liverpool FC: The world’s 27th most valuable sports property

                              Meanwhile, George Gillett, the co-owner of Liverpool, has secured more than US$500 million from the sale of the Montreal Canadiens to the Molson family, in a deal that just needs the NHL’s agreement to be finalised.

                              * The above is posted in my opinion. Feel free to disagree.

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