Why 3rd favourites???

[red g]

Arshavin isnt a central midfielder though, is he?

and actually wouldnt really call RVP a wide man either.....and eduardo didnt get mentioned or to a lesser extent Vela

[red g]

Ferguson has always pulled off something after he's sold his best players though so I won't bet them against them doing very well this year. We can't rule them out, they still have Owen Hargreaves to come from injury.

is that a sarcastic post? please tell me it is........

[-V-]

Who have Man U got? 13-14 league goal scorers Fatboy and Berbatov, with an ageing Owen who failed to score in his last 12 Newcastle appearances. Please don't say Wellbeck and Macheda or I'll fall off my chair laughing.

Arsenal? No Adebayor now, so only Bendtner as a central striker. Arshavin is a central midfielder and Van Persie's a wide man. Chelsea have just Drogba and Anelka. I don't see this massive gap up front that you perceive - and let's not forget we were comfortably top goalscorers last season

Yes Man Utd have been weakened and thats good for us. But they have Berbatov, Owen, Rooney and i would not be surprised if they sign a big player soon.

Chelsea have Anelka, Drogba and Kalou

Arsenal have RVP, Eduardo, Arshavin, Walcott and to a lesser extent Bendtner

IF Torres gets injured we are screwed. Kuyt is usually quite poor upfront unless he is with Torres. Babel has never looked capable upfront and Voronin is ****ing ****. Ngog is totally unproven.

We sold crouch and replaced him with Keane. We sold Keane and replaced him with no-one. IF Torres gets injured I guarantee you that we are screwed. We will struggle without him unless we get another option in.

United won the league because they have 4-5 strikers to choose from and were able to throw 4 on at the same time to salvage games. They won alot of games 1-0 and often through late goals. They did this because they had good options. We drew alot of games because we didnt have those options and nothing has changed yet

[Redspin]

Arshavin isnt a central midfielder though, is he?

He plays in the same role as Gerrard generally, the central in the attacking midfield three . He's certainly not a striker

[Redspin]

and actually wouldnt really call RVP a wide man either.....and eduardo didnt get mentioned or to a lesser extent Vela

Van Persie's a wide man who occasionally plays centrally, although when Adebayor was playing, that was his role. Mentioning Eduardo and Vela is like the Mancs pointing to the attacking prowess of such luminaries as Wellbeck and Macheda, or us crowing about Voronin for that matter

[-V-]

RVP plays for Arsenal as a striker. Eduardo will be their key man. If your suggesting he is like Wellbeck or Macheda then you dont have a clue

[Craig_H]

He plays in the same role as Gerrard generally, the central in the attacking midfield three . He's certainly not a striker

Gerrard plays as a second striker or a forward. Not a CM anymore.

Van Persie's a wide man who occasionally plays centrally, although when Adebayor was playing, that was his role. Mentioning Eduardo and Vela is like the Mancs pointing to the attacking prowess of such luminaries as Wellbeck and Macheda, or us crowing about Voronin for that matter

I dont even know where to start. Van Persie's a striker who can play wide.

As for comparing Eduardo to Macheda and Welbeck - you didnt seriously do that without a hint of irony, did you?

[Marky]

I think we'll win the league this season.

[Redspin]

Yes Man Utd have been weakened and thats good for us. But they have Berbatov, Owen, Rooney and i would not be surprised if they sign a big player soon.

Chelsea have Anelka, Drogba and Kalou

Arsenal have RVP, Eduardo, Arshavin, Walcott and to a lesser extent Bendtner

IF Torres gets injured we are screwed. Kuyt is usually quite poor upfront unless he is with Torres. Babel has never looked capable upfront and Voronin is ****ing ****. Ngog is totally unproven.

We sold crouch and replaced him with Keane. We sold Keane and replaced him with no-one. IF Torres gets injured I guarantee you that we are screwed. We will struggle without him unless we get another option in.

United won the league because they have 4-5 strikers to choose from and were able to throw 4 on at the same time to salvage games. They won alot of games 1-0 and often through late goals. They did this because they had good options. We drew alot of games because we didnt have those options and nothing has changed yet

The fact that you're seriously mentioning Kalou (nicknamed Kalou-less by my Chelsea mates down here in Surrey), the permanently-injured Van Persie, the hopeless Bendtner (who my Arsenal mates were hoping would go to City with Adebayor in a buy-one-get-one-free offer), the goal-shy lightweight Walcott, the totally unproven in the Premier League Arshavin and the yet-to-be-proven Eduardo, somewhat undermines your argument.

Rooney took 5 full seasons to pass the 50-league goal target, whilst Berbatov has failed to reach 15 league goals in any of the past three seasons. I don't see any reason why Owen will somehow transform from a player who totally lost his sharpness and pace into a top striker again (and it should be remembered that even he never once scored as many as 20 league goals in a season even at his absolute peak).

And yet you immediately slag off our forwards. The "usually poor up front" Kuyt scored as many league goals as Rooney while playing most of the season on the right. He played a mere handful of games alone up front - including scoring twice at home against Wigan as I recall - so I don't know how you can roundly condemn him in that role, while seeing Kalou, Bendtner etc as a goal threat.

Yes we sold Keane and he hasn't yet been replaced, but I'm pretty sure that's because we're looking for a top quality replacement and don't want to dive in with a hasty purchase. You make it sound like not replacing him was Rafa's perverse intention; "...we sold Crouch and replaced him with Keane. We sold Keane and replaced him with no-one...".

Also I'm prepared to wager that we won more games with late winners than Man U did - it was always being mentioned on TV during games last season. We scored more late goals than anyone, according to Sky anyway. I can't be bothered to look it up

True, they won a lot of games by 1 goal - 16 in the league (I can't remember how many were actually 1-0) - I leave aside the fact that if we'd done that it would have been described as a symptom of our boring, negative play - but very few were through throwing on 4 strikers - unless you mean four players you who pay in advanced positions, considering that they usually only play with one main striker like most teams, but have other key players in support roles. But the same could be said about Liverpool. In many games we would throw on Benayoun or Babel to accompany Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt etc.

I understand about being pessimistic, but try to be realistic and look critically at other teams rather than with blind, uncritical admiration

[Craig_H]

I understand about being pessimistic, but try to be realistic and look critically at other teams rather than with blind, uncritical admiration

I dont think you're best placed to give out that advice mate.

[BrianF80]

Obviously I know nothing about betting but aren't the odds (initial odds aside) as much a function of how much money is staked on each team?

[Craig_H]

Obviously I know nothing about betting but aren't the odds (initial odds aside) as much a function of how much money is staked on each team?

To a point, yes.

[red g]

The fact that you're seriously mentioning Kalou (nicknamed Kalou-less by my Chelsea mates down here in Surrey), the permanently-injured Van Persie, the hopeless Bendtner (who my Arsenal mates were hoping would go to City with Adebayor in a buy-one-get-one-free offer), the goal-shy lightweight Walcott, the totally unproven in the Premier League Arshavin and the yet-to-be-proven Eduardo, somewhat undermines your argument.

Rooney took 5 full seasons to pass the 50-league goal target, whilst Berbatov has failed to reach 15 league goals in any of the past three seasons. I don't see any reason why Owen will somehow transform from a player who totally lost his sharpness and pace into a top striker again (and it should be remembered that even he never once scored as many as 20 league goals in a season even at his absolute peak).

And yet you immediately slag off our forwards. The "usually poor up front" Kuyt scored as many league goals as Rooney while playing most of the season on the right. He played a mere handful of games alone up front - including scoring twice at home against Wigan as I recall - so I don't know how you can roundly condemn him in that role, while seeing Kalou, Bendtner etc as a goal threat.

Yes we sold Keane and he hasn't yet been replaced, but I'm pretty sure that's because we're looking for a top quality replacement and don't want to dive in with a hasty purchase. You make it sound like not replacing him was Rafa's perverse intention; "...we sold Crouch and replaced him with Keane. We sold Keane and replaced him with no-one...".

Also I'm prepared to wager that we won more games with late winners than Man U did - it was always being mentioned on TV during games last season. We scored more late goals than anyone, according to Sky anyway. I can't be bothered to look it up

True, they won a lot of games by 1 goal - 16 in the league (I can't remember how many were actually 1-0) - I leave aside the fact that if we'd done that it would have been described as a symptom of our boring, negative play - but very few were through throwing on 4 strikers - unless you mean four players you who pay in advanced positions, considering that they usually only play with one main striker like most teams, but have other key players in support roles. But the same could be said about Liverpool. In many games we would throw on Benayoun or Babel to accompany Torres, Gerrard, Kuyt etc.

I understand about being pessimistic, but try to be realistic and look critically at other teams rather than with blind, uncritical admiration

think you need to be a bit more realistic with yours fella. that permanently injured van persie played 44 times for them last year and scored 20 goals.

Bendtner we can all agree on is ****, but i think Eduardo is a class player and arshavin has only played a dozen times for arsenal but oozes class and Walcott is young and raw, not convinced he wil make it as a top pro but we shall see.

[Redspin]

I dont think you're best placed to give out that advice mate.

And you would be I imagine?

[Craig_H]

And you would be I imagine?

I'd say so. I'm certainly not the person who's in a minority of one, in this case.

You've already had your point about 'permanently injured' RvP shot down, havent you?