Ayala and San Jose

[tommyg]

Ayala over Kelly because he is Spanish

[DannyMan2006]

Ayala over Kelly because he is Spanish

Ayala over Kelly because Ayala got game time with Carra in pre season, whilst Kelly played at RB and CB with San Jose.

Also taken into account Kelly called up for England U20 in the midweek internationals whilst Ayala did training at LFC all week with Carragher and Rafa.......

[The Birdman]

Ayala over Kelly because Ayala got game time with Carra in pre season, whilst Kelly played at RB and CB with San Jose.

Also taken into account Kelly called up for England U20 in the midweek internationals whilst Ayala did training at LFC all week with Carragher and Rafa.......

And probably because Rafa thinks Ayala is a better CB at the moment than Kelly but maybe Rafa picks on nationalility rather than talent or ability

[DannyMan2006]

And probably because Rafa thinks Ayala is a better CB at the moment than Kelly but maybe Rafa picks on nationalility rather than talent or ability

I don't even think he was picked ahead down to ability. In pre season Rafa always trys to play the best defender with the weakest defender. Lack of players meant Carra with Ayala. Had the problem of Skrtel and Agger been forseen we would have seen Kelly or San Jose playing with Carragher IMO.

Has to be remembeerd that initially Ayala was not even considered as being ready to tour with the first team this summer and was a late replacement for the injured Agger.

[Guest]

And probably because Rafa thinks Ayala is a better CB at the moment than Kelly but maybe Rafa picks on nationalility rather than talent or ability

Don't think that's true. What did Kelly show as a defender, apart from being good on the ball and marauding forward on occasions - which are hardly attributes of a defender. At least Ayala stays put and actually concentrates on defending.

[DannyMan2006]

Don't think that's true. What did Kelly show as a defender, apart from being good on the ball and marauding forward on occasions - which are hardly attributes of a defender. At least Ayala stays put and actually concentrates on defending.

Read his comment and read yours again. Slowly

Then maybe quote me and I'll answer

[Guest]

Read his comment and read yours again. Slowly

Then maybe quote me and I'll answer

Do tell.

[DannyMan2006]

I don't even think he was picked ahead down to ability. In pre season Rafa always trys to play the best defender with the weakest defender. Lack of players meant Carra with Ayala. Had the problem of Skrtel and Agger been forseen we would have seen Kelly or San Jose playing with Carragher IMO.

Has to be remembeerd that initially Ayala was not even considered as being ready to tour with the first team this summer and was a late replacement for the injured Agger.

Don't think that's true. What did Kelly show as a defender, apart from being good on the ball and marauding forward on occasions - which are hardly attributes of a defender. At least Ayala stays put and actually concentrates on defending.

Do tell.

All I can really say is that Rafa did not envisage a situation where we would be without two fit senior defenders. The injuries to both Skrtel and Agger came as a suprise, as did the failure to bring in a 4th choice defender sooner. So what can be known is that there was initially no plan to start any of the 3 young CB. As I said, Ayala was not even considered ready for the tour early doors and was called up to make the numbers.

When we first started pre season we had Glen Johnson playing LB along with Insua. Reason behind this was Rafa could play Degen on the right as well as Martin Kelly - who played some games a RB last year for Huddersfield on loan. We had no other LB as Aurelio was injured and Dossena was still resting after the Confed Cup. These initial pre season games were only about getting players match fit so players were just used to fill the gaps and get game time in a position they could get by in. It meant some strange results as usual.

CB wise we ended up with Carra, Skrtel, San Jose and Ayala (late call up for Agger). In Rafas usual fashion he played the strongest CB (Carra) with the weakest (Ayala), leaving San Jose with Skrtel.

As games progressed on Dossena came back from the Confed Cup and went to LB with Insua. Johnson went back to RB with Degen, meaning Kelly got free'd up. An injury to Skrtel then meant Kelly got moved to CB with San Jose, with Ayala still with Carra.

Then during the Atletico game it all went wrong. Going into the Spurs game both Carra and Skrtel were carrying slight injuries but both got passed fit to play. Kelly and Ayala both got put on the bench. Skrtel eventually had to come off and on came Ayala who had played most of pre season alongside Carra, which helps a lot.

Ayala did well enough and then started the Stoke game, again along side Carra and again with Kelly on the bench.

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So you see, it is my opinion that a varied list of reasons led to Ayala getting the nod over SJ and Kelly. What also should not be discounted is that Ayala impressed when given the chance, but even if he had been slightly worse than the other two his experience with Carra would have meant I personally would also have started Ayala.

Had it been clear from the start that Agger and Skrtel would be out we may have seen one of the other three lining up.

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A fit Aurelio or Darby could also have changed the outcome. Had Aurelio been fit Johnson would have been on the right all pre season, meaning Kelly in the centre. Had Darby been fit he would have been RB with Degen and Kelly would have been in the centre, probably meaning Ayala would not even have been called up...............

[Guest]

I'm also pretty sure that Kelly has overtaken Degen as second choice right back, at this point in time that is.

[DannyMan2006]

I'm also pretty sure that Kelly has overtaken Degen as second choice right back, at this point in time that is.

Hard to say. He can play CB too so was obviously a better bet for sub than Degen.

Be interesting to see where all the events of the summer leave Darby. Really unlucky to be injured and miss a big chance to stake a claim.

[The Birdman]

And probably because Rafa thinks Ayala is a better CB at the moment than Kelly but maybe Rafa picks on nationalility rather than talent or ability

Would just like to clarify that I was being ironic in response to tommyg's post.

Ayala is getting picked because he is the best of what we have available, end of.

[Woobus]

I think Ayala got picked for his heading skills due to Carra having a head injury.