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    A major problem in our play

    I've been thinking this for a while and with each game that passes, the thought is continually re-enforced...

    We have a major problem with our central midfielders. I love Alonso, i love his vision and touch, how assured he is on the ball and his ability to think quickly. He's a top drawer player.

    Likewise, Sissoko is fast becoming a must-have in our team. The rapid progress he's made, and will continue to make, is extremely pleasing.

    They're both very very good players.

    But (there had to be one), when you couple them with our strikeforce, be it Kuyt/Crouch, Bellamy/Kuyt or Crouch/Bellamy (i've not included fowler, because i dont see him as being a long term feature of our team sadly), we encounter a major problem.

    Bellamy, as we know, isnt a target man. He works the channels, uses his pace, comes wide and gets involved. Good. No problem.

    Kuyt too, drops off, can go wide, link the play and plays a part in the build up of our attacks.

    Crouch does less of this, and in the context of this issue, is less of a problem. His abysmal heading IS a problem, but that's another thread entirely.

    Now, if we take into account the fact that Kuyt and Bellamy drop off and go wide, AND the fact that, despite Pennant probably not being everyone's cup of tea, he DOES get wide and deliver PLENTY of crosses, we reach the problem at hand. Often it's Bellamy or Kuyt who has gone wide and played the ball to Pennant, who crosses whilst the aforementioned passer is still out wide. But of course, sometimes it's Kuyt or Bellamy themselves who will be drifting wide and crossing the ball. So...

    Bellamy goes wide and crosses - only Crouch is in the box. Nothing much to aim at. Kuyt goes wide, same problem. Crosses are ideally not aimed at one individual player, but at AREAS in the box. If a winger puts a cross into a good area, at the right pace, he cant do a lot more. It's then upto the man in the area to attack this ball and get himself a goal.

    So, when Pennant delivers into the box and we only have Crouch there, the chances of him finding the big man are remote.

    This is where we have a problem with Alonso and Sissoko - they do NOT get themselves into the box. They're not a goalscoring threat from crosses or freekicks. Momo isnt a threat at goal whatsoever, as it goes. But Alonso isnt a goal threat from inside the box, because he very rarely gets there.

    Contrast this to players like Rosicky, Scholes, Lampard and Cahill.

    We dont have that.

    Sure, Gerrard can be that for us when he plays in CM, but that isnt often and even when he does, he's often the one doing the crossing.

    This is something we lack and it's SO obvious and frustrating.

    Even at HOME, we rarely seem to have more than 2 players in the box when one of our players is wide and crossing the ball. It's horribly annoying and is also the reason so many of our crosses are so easily cleared, or fly away without any real danger.

    Has no one else been frustrated by this? I'm (almost literally) pulling my hair out at every game these days.

    *sigh*

    #2
    Sissoko has the engine to get into the box more, I don't think Alonso has the legs to do it.

    So, can we turn Sissoko into a genuine box-to-box midfielder with a goal threat?
    James Philip Milner Fanclub #1

    Curtis Julian Jones Fanclub #1

    Comment


      #3
      Excellent points well made.

      This is something that I've noticed before and the only way round it is for Rafa to start playing Momo/Xabi and Stevie in the middle together or to play his favoured 4-2-3-1 which he used at the start of his first season.

      As the season progresses I hope we can address this problem and perhaps reverting back to the 4-2-3-1 is the way to go.
      Babel fanclub member # 4!!!

      **** OFF MOURINHO!!!!!!:whatever:

      Comment


        #4
        I've ben bemoaning our lack of what I call a "genuinely creative attacking midfielder" in another thread, by which I mean a Zola, Bergkamp, Aimar-esque player who can get in with the strikers and create play for us in and around the box. Our squad is all central midfielders, wide players, or strikers, apart from Garcia we don't have anyone who really fulfills that criteria, and he is so inconsistent (and is rarely played in that role anyhow). Kewell perhaps, but that's a whole other debate in itself, and irrelevant currently due to his injuries.

        Its strange, in Rafa's first season he tried to have us play his way from Spain, messing with 4-2-3-1 etc, and in the league it didn't work. So we brought in Crouch etc and he adapted tacticly, and on the whole last season it worked quite well in the league playing a more English style of footy. Now however we seem to have got sucked into that even more, with Rafa religiously playing 4-4-2, to the extent that we are concentrating so hard on playing "premiership style footy", we're forgetting to impose a style of our own on the game. All this wingers and crosses stuff is useless if, as you point out, the players attacking the crosses and second balls are totally outnumbered.

        It will get better, we've too many decent players in this squad for it not to, and a manager that normally isn't afraid to have a rethink........
        I could not dig, I dared not rob:
        Therefore I lied to please the mob.
        Now all my lies are proved untrue
        And I must face the men I slew.
        What tale shall serve me here among
        Mine angry and defrauded young?

        Comment


          #5
          It's not even an Aimar or Zola type i'm talking about really, it's a centre midfielder who actually gets beyond the strikers or arrives late in the box, ala Scholes, Cahill and the like.

          One of those can easily play in a 4-4-2.

          Comment


            #6
            It should be Gerrard, he's one of the best in the premiership at getting forward from midfield. Look at his goal tally last season.
            For some bizzare reason Rafa wants to play Gerrard on the right wing. Baffles me.
            Originally posted by Gordon Brown
            (1995)
            "A weak currency is the sign of a weak economy,which is the sign of a weak government"

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Marvin
              It should be Gerrard, he's one of the best in the premiership at getting forward from midfield. Look at his goal tally last season.
              For some bizzare reason Rafa wants to play Gerrard on the right wing. Baffles me.
              It's not THAT baffling, when we consider how no other right wing alternative seems to consistently have a positive impact from that position.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by DJS
                It's not THAT baffling, when we consider how no other right wing alternative seems to consistently have a positive impact from that position.
                It is baffling to me. Who are we crossing to from the right? Crouch? Heading is not a strong part of any of our striker's game and with Gerrard on the right we cant cross to him either.
                He should be in the centre of the box scoring goals, not putting in crosses so we can waste more chances. Missed chances has been our downfall this season.
                Originally posted by Gordon Brown
                (1995)
                "A weak currency is the sign of a weak economy,which is the sign of a weak government"

                Comment


                  #9
                  What about not playing 4-4-2?

                  Now we actually have strikers who can drop off, what's wrong with Rafa's old 4-2-3-1.... Garcia, Kewell, Gerrard, Gonzales, Pennant and Bellamy and Kuyt could all play as part of that attacking 3, while all of Kuyt, Bellamy and Crouch could play at the top.
                  I could not dig, I dared not rob:
                  Therefore I lied to please the mob.
                  Now all my lies are proved untrue
                  And I must face the men I slew.
                  What tale shall serve me here among
                  Mine angry and defrauded young?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Post the players names in that formation, if you will...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I'm not sure formation is the real problem. For me the problem is Rafa's rotation policy.
                      It's like musical chairs in our squad, if you're going to win the league your team has to be consistent and your form has to be consistent. There is every need to rest players now and again but I think Rafa's fast approaching 100 games where he's failed to pick the same eleven in consecutive games.
                      You can win cups with an inconsistent team, but you can't win the league with an inconsistent team.
                      Originally posted by Gordon Brown
                      (1995)
                      "A weak currency is the sign of a weak economy,which is the sign of a weak government"

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by DJS
                        I've been thinking this for a while and with each game that passes, the thought is continually re-enforced...

                        We have a major problem with our central midfielders. I love Alonso, i love his vision and touch, how assured he is on the ball and his ability to think quickly. He's a top drawer player.

                        Likewise, Sissoko is fast becoming a must-have in our team. The rapid progress he's made, and will continue to make, is extremely pleasing.

                        They're both very very good players.

                        But (there had to be one), when you couple them with our strikeforce, be it Kuyt/Crouch, Bellamy/Kuyt or Crouch/Bellamy (i've not included fowler, because i dont see him as being a long term feature of our team sadly), we encounter a major problem.

                        Bellamy, as we know, isnt a target man. He works the channels, uses his pace, comes wide and gets involved. Good. No problem.

                        Kuyt too, drops off, can go wide, link the play and plays a part in the build up of our attacks.

                        Crouch does less of this, and in the context of this issue, is less of a problem. His abysmal heading IS a problem, but that's another thread entirely.

                        Now, if we take into account the fact that Kuyt and Bellamy drop off and go wide, AND the fact that, despite Pennant probably not being everyone's cup of tea, he DOES get wide and deliver PLENTY of crosses, we reach the problem at hand. Often it's Bellamy or Kuyt who has gone wide and played the ball to Pennant, who crosses whilst the aforementioned passer is still out wide. But of course, sometimes it's Kuyt or Bellamy themselves who will be drifting wide and crossing the ball. So...

                        Bellamy goes wide and crosses - only Crouch is in the box. Nothing much to aim at. Kuyt goes wide, same problem. Crosses are ideally not aimed at one individual player, but at AREAS in the box. If a winger puts a cross into a good area, at the right pace, he cant do a lot more. It's then upto the man in the area to attack this ball and get himself a goal.

                        So, when Pennant delivers into the box and we only have Crouch there, the chances of him finding the big man are remote.

                        This is where we have a problem with Alonso and Sissoko - they do NOT get themselves into the box. They're not a goalscoring threat from crosses or freekicks. Momo isnt a threat at goal whatsoever, as it goes. But Alonso isnt a goal threat from inside the box, because he very rarely gets there.

                        Contrast this to players like Rosicky, Scholes, Lampard and Cahill.

                        We dont have that.

                        Sure, Gerrard can be that for us when he plays in CM, but that isnt often and even when he does, he's often the one doing the crossing.

                        This is something we lack and it's SO obvious and frustrating.

                        Even at HOME, we rarely seem to have more than 2 players in the box when one of our players is wide and crossing the ball. It's horribly annoying and is also the reason so many of our crosses are so easily cleared, or fly away without any real danger.

                        Has no one else been frustrated by this? I'm (almost literally) pulling my hair out at every game these days.

                        *sigh*
                        Yikes, sorry couldn't read all of that! Could be the bottle of red, or the fact i've gone over the same ground many times before.

                        Gerrard/Alonso also have shown to me, many times, that they are not an effective enough central pairing. I know the opta stats prove different i.e. that Alonso tackles are up there in comparison to anyones. But Alsono is just not a good enough barrier to repel the opposition attacks through the middle IMO, without being ably supported from the flanks (i.e. Aureilo's presence today) - and his pressing in that defensive rectangle in front of the central defenders is woeful unlike Makelele who is a master.

                        Therefore, no matter what his partner is instructed to do before the game, he'll always be drawn into this defensive rectangle - in front of the center backs. Momo, as Rafa has alluded to, by all accounts can be a box to box midfielder. However to counter that, his passing and shooting has been woeful in his LFC career thus far. I'll therefore accept that Momo can be 'converted' to what he already is, that being a first class Makelele-style midfield maestro.
                        ...
                        Don't take life too seriously or you'll never get out alive.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by DJS
                          Post the players names in that formation, if you will...
                          Usual back line (Agger ahead of Hyppia)

                          ------Sissoko---Alonso-----
                          Garcia------Gerrard------Bellamy
                          ------------Kuyt-------

                          -------Sissoko---Alonso-----
                          Gerrard------Kuyt---------Garcia
                          ------------Crouch--------

                          --------Sissoko----Alonso----
                          Pennant-----Gerrrard----Kewell/Gonzales
                          -----------Kuyt/Crouch--------

                          ----------Gerrard-----Sissoko/Alonso
                          Bellamy/Pennant---Garcia---------Gonzales
                          ---------------Kuyt/Crouch--------

                          --------Sissoko----Alonso------
                          Kuyt---------Gerrard-------Garcia/Kewell
                          -----------Crouch/Bellamy--------

                          And so on, the combinations are endless - my point being that we now have enough variables of players for Rafa to actually implement this sort of formation, and I think it would both allow us to play to our strengths, and play our best players in their best positions most of the time.
                          Last edited by MrMichael; 15-10-06, 02:31 AM.
                          I could not dig, I dared not rob:
                          Therefore I lied to please the mob.
                          Now all my lies are proved untrue
                          And I must face the men I slew.
                          What tale shall serve me here among
                          Mine angry and defrauded young?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by MrMichael
                            Usual back line (Agger ahead of Hyppia)

                            ------Sissoko---Alonso-----
                            Garcia------Gerrard------Bellamy
                            ------------Kuyt-------

                            -------Sissoko---Alonso-----
                            Gerrard------Kuyt---------Garcia
                            ------------Crouch--------

                            --------Sissoko----Alonso----
                            Pennant-----Gerrrard----Kewell/Gonzales
                            -----------Kuyt/Crouch

                            -------Gerrard---Sissoko/Alonso
                            Pennant-------Garcia------Bellamy
                            -------------Kuyt/Crouch

                            --------Sissoko----Alonso------
                            Kuyt---------Gerrard-------Garcia/Kewell
                            -----------Crouch/Bellamy

                            And so on, the combinations are endless - my point being that we now have enough variables of players for Rafa to actually implement this sort of formation, and I think it would both allow us to play to our strengths, and play our best players in their best positions most of the time.

                            im liking some of those formations, lost of possibilities there.
                            "When a man insults my country I insult him, by taking his woman" Tony Yeboah

                            "looking through your posts since 2007 and what you have consistently written about my football team I have come to the conclusion that if you had 1 more brain cell you would be a plant .. your father was a hamster and your mother smells of elder berries, I fart in your general direction ..." Nicey

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Harveybirdman
                              im liking some of those formations, lost of possibilities there.
                              That's the point, and we know that's Rafa's preferred formation anyway, I'm really suprised he hasn't tried it yet. Both Kuyt and Bellamy are very comfortable dropping into the channels anyway, in that system Gerrard mostly gets to play in an attacking cetral role with licence to switch with players like Garcia or Kewell, and then there's the Gonzales/Pennant option when we want to add some real width.

                              Arsenal started with Adebayor, Henry, Rosicky and Walcott today. ManU played Saha, Rooney, Solskjaer and Scholes, with Giggs second half.. We had Pennant and Aurelio supporting Bellamy and Crouch. Not quite the same is it?. We have 2 of the best holding midfield players around, and actually an abundance of attacking options, why we are sticking to this rigid English 4-4-2, in a way that often unbalances the side and consistently forces our best players out of position, I really don't quite understand.
                              Last edited by MrMichael; 15-10-06, 02:44 AM.
                              I could not dig, I dared not rob:
                              Therefore I lied to please the mob.
                              Now all my lies are proved untrue
                              And I must face the men I slew.
                              What tale shall serve me here among
                              Mine angry and defrauded young?

                              Comment

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