THE Lucas thread

[MrMichael]

I wasnt doing it in the first place, numb nuts

Me : Oh yes you were

You: Oh no I wasn't

Me: Oh yes you were

You: Oh no I wasn't

Me: Oh yes you were

You: Oh no I wasn't

Me : You're not getting the last word

You: Oh yes I am

Me: No you're not

You: Yes, I am

Me: *Puts Craig on Global ignore*

You:

[DannyMan2006]

There have been plenty of sympathy votes, just like Alonso got them last year. If everyone played average, Xabi got the vote.

This year there have been games where we have only had one or two stand out players, so people are tending to fill the final spot with Lucas out of sympathy.

In fairness it will probably be a tactic used when Aquilani starts playing for us. If everyone performs to a similar level he will get the nod so people can prove to themselves he will be a big hit.

[Scratch]

He's bulked up well, started to grow a pair and put himself about a bit and gradually imposing himself more onto games.

Next step is to stand out for being one of the most significant positive contributors of impact to our game.

Weirdly, i think he breaks up opposition play better than Mascherano, and on the whole the stats do back this up (going by the Guardian chalkboard thingy, which i can't make work at work so feel free to disprove me)...however, as he doesn't fly in to tackles, and instead keeps his feet and wins the ball this way, it is less eye-catching and less likely to stick in the mind. In fact, i don't recall him ever making a crunching sliding tackle.

Plus he doesn't try hollywood passes like Mascher, and isn't prone to shooting from 35 yards, and is instead happy to win the ball and pass it. What annoys me is that no matter what position he takes up, a few of his team mates choose to ignore him...Carra for one seems to be want to try a hoof ball...pass it simple, man!!!

Mascher and Lucas, as a pair, don't work...Mascher should only be played against teams that will look to attack us...against lesser teams, i feel Mascher can be rested and Lucas will be more than able to take up the midfield mantle.

[Scratch]

Sympathy votes? I don't see that...out of all our players, Lucas has been one of the most consistant (along with Insua and Johnson), winning tackles, crisp passing...basically being unobtrusive but effective, the same thing that Hammann rightly used to get praised for.

[Reece]

Hasn't been updated yet from this weeks games

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11096_2705370,00.html

[MrMichael]

Hasn't been updated yet from this weeks games

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...705370,00.html

Yeah, that also says Carra is the 5th top passer in the league.

[gerbin11]

One of the questions asked was a hypothetical, if Lucas was playing at a team like Wigan would we want to buy him. There are many issues with this question, some people have stated that Cattermole would have been a decent signing as a squad midfielder. He played at Wigan, is he any better than Lucas? If Lucas had been playing at Wigan would he be at the standard he is at now or better, maybe worse. He would certainly have had more time on the field over the past two seasons which would have developed him more. Cattermole was born into the English league and so never had to get used to as different style of play, Lucas wasn't and did have to adjust. As has been stated he has bulked up and started to impose himself more. He certainly did well as a centre midfielder to win the accolades he did in Brazil. I hope I have hinted at the failings of the question asked and I would like to ask if Carragher would have turned into the player he did if he had been under the pressure the 'fans' have put Lucas under over the past two seasons?

[Delinquent]

Yes

That's absurd. While I accept that Lucas has been unfairly targeted for criticism on a few occasions this season, suggesting that he's been sufficiently impressive for us to consider signing him (were he playing for another team) is equally misguided.

If his performances this season are the yardstick by which we judge potential signings then there's a whole host of other 'tidy' midfielders who I dare say fit the bill. If we have ambitions to win the title however, we need to be signing outstanding players, not tidy ones.

If he'd been playing for another club the way he's been playing for us, he would have passed by relatively unnoticed. That is, he's not been sufficiently good, or sufficiently bad to draw a great deal of attention to himself. The only reason he gets so much attention among Liverpool fans is because of who he's had to replace.

[Craig_H]

That's absurd. While I accept that Lucas has been unfairly targeted for criticism on a few occasions this season, suggesting that he's been sufficiently impressive for us to consider signing him (were he playing for another team) is equally misguided.

If his performances this season are the yardstick by which we judge potential signings then there's a whole host of other 'tidy' midfielders who I dare say fit the bill. If we have ambitions to win the title however, we need to be signing outstanding players, not tidy ones.

If he'd been playing for another club the way he's been playing for us, he would have passed by relatively unnoticed. That is, he's not been sufficiently good, or sufficiently bad to draw a great deal of attention to himself. The only reason he gets so much attention among Liverpool fans is because of who he's had to replace.

Thank you.

[rudedog]

That's absurd. While I accept that Lucas has been unfairly targeted for criticism on a few occasions this season, suggesting that he's been sufficiently impressive for us to consider signing him (were he playing for another team) is equally misguided.

If his performances this season are the yardstick by which we judge potential signings then there's a whole host of other 'tidy' midfielders who I dare say fit the bill. If we have ambitions to win the title however, we need to be signing outstanding players, not tidy ones.

If he'd been playing for another club the way he's been playing for us, he would have passed by relatively unnoticed. That is, he's not been sufficiently good, or sufficiently bad to draw a great deal of attention to himself. The only reason he gets so much attention among Liverpool fans is because of who he's had to replace.

But we can't have a squad of 25 'outstanding' players though, it would be impossible to give them all enough playing time to keep them happy whilst retaining the necessary cohesion needed for a succesfull team.

The idea behind having 'tidy' players in the squad is that they can slip in to the side when needed without any huge detriment to the team. Isn't this what Lucas is currently doing?

[Reece]

Right, that's a bit better.

Can we please attempt to stick to good debate? There is too much bitchiness and sniping and insult throwing on this forum at the minute, and it's getting tiresome.

Thanks

[Craig_H]

Reece posts that....and 2.5 hours later, nobody else has posted anything.

Good work Mod-Man!

[BrianF80]

Weirdly, i think he breaks up opposition play better than Mascherano, and on the whole the stats do back this up (going by the Guardian chalkboard thingy, which i can't make work at work so feel free to disprove me)...however, as he doesn't fly in to tackles, and instead keeps his feet and wins the ball this way, it is less eye-catching and less likely to stick in the mind. In fact, i don't recall him ever making a crunching sliding tackle.

Plus he doesn't try hollywood passes like Mascher, and isn't prone to shooting from 35 yards, and is instead happy to win the ball and pass it. What annoys me is that no matter what position he takes up, a few of his team mates choose to ignore him...Carra for one seems to be want to try a hoof ball...pass it simple, man!!!

Mascher and Lucas, as a pair, don't work...Mascher should only be played against teams that will look to attack us...against lesser teams, i feel Mascher can be rested and Lucas will be more than able to take up the midfield mantle.

[Scratch]

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1143/09092021140.jpg

So even in a game where Mascher excelled, just taking the bare facts into account...

Mascher
Tackles 3/3 (100%)
Passes 85/96 (89%)

Lucas
Tackles 5/7 (71%)
Passes 65/72 (90%)

So Lucas had a good game, as did Mascher, yet is still derided by some?

And Carra only passed to Lucas/Mascher 14 times (5 to Lucas, 9 to Mascher) and Skrtel 23 (6 Lucas, 17 Mascher)

[Craig_H]

So even in a game where Mascher excelled, just taking the bare facts into account...

Mascher
Tackles 3/3 (100%)
Passes 85/96 (89%)

Lucas
Tackles 5/7 (71%)
Passes 65/72 (90%)

So Lucas had a good game, as did Mascher, yet is still derided by some?

And Carra only passed to Lucas/Mascher 14 times (5 to Lucas, 9 to Mascher) and Skrtel 23 (6 Lucas, 17 Mascher)

That's from the West Ham game isnt it?

Where have people derided him based on that game? Show us some links, i'm quite curious to see who's said what to deride him.