Would anyone else take 7/8 losses if we could win over 27 games

[DannyMan2006]

Put it like this. The scenario is you are playing a computer game. Your mission is to kill everyone within a certain time limit. One shot to kill the enemy, but also one shot kills you.

At first you would start the game with a structured tactical approach. You would sneak around with the sniper and try and pick people off. You would be mindful of the time limit but you wouldn't want to be killed before you even get started.

As time ticks on you'd start to up your game if you're not at the point you should be by that stage. Maybe you'd be a bit more adventurous, using less cover and maybe a more powerful weapon. More risk, but needs must.

Then as the last minutes kick in and you still need to get rid of quite a decent number you would think **** it. You'd get the biggest weapon you had and start shooting at everything in sight, throwing grenades and the lot. You would of course be out in the open and very vulnerable if the enemy risked popping their heads out the parapit and taking a pot shot. But again, needs must.

[Craig_H]

Forget about that for the moment, think about the tactics vs. the personell. Sub Aquilani for Lucas if it makes it easier.

Why forget about it? It's not something to just dismiss.

Some players have a goalscoring threat about them and instinctively find themselves in goalscoring positions, so it's logical that you'd improve your chances of finding a goal, if you have more of these lads on the pitch in the last 20-25 minutes.

[DannyMan2006]

Forget about that for the moment, think about the tactics vs. the personell. Sub Aquilani for Lucas if it makes it easier.

I think that maybe Rafas idea but Lucas has not done it. Either that or the Bolton game was a one off, what with Gerrard being man marked he kept dropping back and telling Lucas to go forward.

[Craig_H]

Put it like this. The scenario is you are playing a computer game. Your mission is to kill everyone within a certain time limit. One shot to kill the enemy, but also one shot kills you.

At first you would start the game with a structured tactical approach. You would sneak around with the sniper and try and pick people off. You would be mindful of the time limit but you wouldn't want to be killed before you even get started.

As time ticks on you'd start to up your game if you're not at the point you should be by that stage. Maybe you'd be a bit more adventurous, using less cover and maybe a more powerful weapon. More risk, but needs must.

Then as the last minutes kick in and you still need to get rid of quite a decent number you would think **** it. You'd get the biggest weapon you had and start shooting at everything in sight, throwing grenades and the lot. You would of course be out in the open and very vulnerable if the enemy risked popping their heads out the parapit and taking a pot shot. But again, needs must.

nice little analogy.

And for the bit in bold - as we've said, it's very unlikely with certain opposition, that they'd pop their heads out of the parapit.

In fact, this season more than most, there is a significant number of sides who fit that '0-0 is our dream' category. Certainly a third of the league, if not more.

Learning to beat these sides will be the difference between winning the title and not.

[BrianF80]

Put it like this. The scenario is you are playing a computer game. Your mission is to kill everyone within a certain time limit. One shot to kill the enemy, but also one shot kills you.

At first you would start the game with a structured tactical approach. You would sneak around with the sniper and try and pick people off. You would be mindful of the time limit but you wouldn't want to be killed before you even get started.

As time ticks on you'd start to up your game if you're not at the point you should be by that stage. Maybe you'd be a bit more adventurous, using less cover and maybe a more powerful weapon. More risk, but needs must.

Then as the last minutes kick in and you still need to get rid of quite a decent number you would think **** it. You'd get the biggest weapon you had and start shooting at everything in sight, throwing grenades and the lot. You would of course be out in the open and very vulnerable if the enemy risked popping their heads out the parapit and taking a pot shot. But again, needs must.

How much risk would you be willing to take if it was real life and you might die?

[Craig_H]

How much risk would you be willing to take if it was real life and you might die?

If your opponent doesnt even have his weapon loaded, there's hardly any risk.

Teams like Stoke, Hull, Brum, Wolves etc, will come to Anfield unarmed, metaphorically speaking.

[DannyMan2006]

nice little analogy.

And for the bit in bold - as we've said, it's very unlikely with certain opposition, that they'd pop their heads out of the parapit.

In fact, this season more than most, there is a significant number of sides who fit that '0-0 is our dream' category. Certainly a third of the league, if not more.

Learning to beat these sides will be the difference between winning the title and not.

I agree. It's also worth noting that of the teams you mentioned before only Wolves have the sort of pace who could break and cause problems.

[BrianF80]

I think that maybe Rafas idea but Lucas has not done it. Either that or the Bolton game was a one off, what with Gerrard being man marked he kept dropping back and telling Lucas to go forward.

It certainly happened more against Bolton because Gerrard was dragging Muamba away from the play and creating space which Lucas then moved into. But it's been very noticable to me this pre-season and on into the real games that Lucas has been joining the attack far more than he ever has.

The Mascherano,Lucas/Aquilani combo seems like an entirely different beast than our CM from last year and I think it's to address the kind of scenario you and Craig are discussing, it adds an extra attacker but without giving up too much in the way of defensive cover. To me it's the kind of classical half way measure you would expect from someone as risk adverse as Benitez. He's trying to get 75% of the benefit with only 25% of the risk.

[DannyMan2006]

It certainly happened more against Bolton because Gerrard was dragging Muamba away from the play and creating space which Lucas then moved into. But it's been very noticable to me this pre-season and on into the real games that Lucas has been joining the attack far more than he ever has.

The Mascherano,Lucas/Aquilani combo seems like an entirely different beast than our CM from last year and I think it's to address the kind of scenario you and Craig are discussing, it adds an extra attacker but without giving up too much in the way of defensive cover. To me it's the kind of classical half way measure you would expect from someone as risk adverse as Benitez. He's trying to get 75% of the benefit with only 25% of the risk.

I think when Gerrard is playing off Torres Lucas stays where he is in DM. When we get desperate and Gerrard drops back Lucas then pushes forward, but by this stage most of our team is camped in the opposition half anyway.

I'd like to say Lucas take up a more advanced role from the start to link play better with Gerrard.

[BrianF80]

If your opponent doesnt even have his weapon loaded, there's hardly any risk.

Teams like Stoke, Hull, Brum, Wolves etc, will come to Anfield unarmed, metaphorically speaking.

The gun is loaded with bullets marked counter-attack, set piece and defensive error. There are constraints, it's not a risk-free enterprise, it's about getting the balance right.

If we were having this discussion before Benitez had replaced a defensive RB with an attacking one and a holding midfielder with an attacking one and before he'd changed the tactics so that one of his holding midfielders get's ahead of the ball I'd have some sympathy.

But to me he looks like he's worked it out, he's just doing it in the measured way you'd expect of someone whose decisions have consequences!

[BrianF80]

I think when Gerrard is playing off Torres Lucas stays where he is in DM. When we get desperate and Gerrard drops back Lucas then pushes forward, but by this stage most of our team is camped in the opposition half anyway.

I'd like to say Lucas take up a more advanced role from the start to link play better with Gerrard.

Fair enough, I've seen Lucas make plenty of forward runs like that.

Either way sounds like you'd prefer a full-time 4132 rather than this half-way house 4231 (4-1.5-3.5-1) we're using.

[DannyMan2006]

Fair enough, I've seen Lucas make plenty of forward runs like that.

Either way sounds like you'd prefer a full-time 4132 rather than this half-way house 4231 (4-1.5-3.5-1) we're using.

I think a player who can move between defence and attack would be more ideal, so half way house for me.

[Craig_H]

It certainly happened more against Bolton because Gerrard was dragging Muamba away from the play and creating space which Lucas then moved into. But it's been very noticable to me this pre-season and on into the real games that Lucas has been joining the attack far more than he ever has.

But he doesnt offer any attacking threat. He cant find the killer ball, isnt particularly strong and doesnt have a good shot on him.

[Craig_H]

The gun is loaded with bullets marked counter-attack, set piece and defensive error. There are constraints, it's not a risk-free enterprise, it's about getting the balance right.

If we were having this discussion before Benitez had replaced a defensive RB with an attacking one and a holding midfielder with an attacking one and before he'd changed the tactics so that one of his holding midfielders get's ahead of the ball I'd have some sympathy.

But to me he looks like he's worked it out, he's just doing it in the measured way you'd expect of someone whose decisions have consequences!

Balls to that, most of them arent interested in getting in our half. Especially not at the latter stages of the game. They're **** and aside from set pieces, the threat is tiny.

[BrianF80]

But he doesnt offer any attacking threat. He cant find the killer ball, isnt particularly strong and doesnt have a good shot on him.

But we're talking about the system of play not the player.