Alonso Speaks...

[Craig_H]

look everybody, lets get one thing straight here..............each and every one of us who bother to read and write things on this discussion board have one thing in common - WE ARE LIVERPOOL TILL WE DIE. We don't sign contracts tying us to support our blessed club for three, four or five years, whatever that maybe, with various clauses attached - and then move on to support another club.Bollox to that.

lets remember, Alonso handed in a transfer request - he wanted to leave L4. If he ever comes back in a european night with madrid - i hope the Kop don't sing his name

most players are only interested in the pound notes......, thankfully we've stevie and carra to keep us sane.......YNWA

So the manager can tell him to **** off, and the player should just be happy with that?

As for Stevie - the same Stevie who handed in a transfer request?

And...for exactly the same reason as Alonso wanted out - because he felt the club didnt want him.

Same scenario, but one's a Scouser and the other's a Spaniard.

[Shaggy]

So if your boss had basically told you he thought you were **** at your job and not worth keeping, you wouldnt be ****ed off about it?

Alonso had no choice but to stay last summer, because we never accepted a bid for him.

He could've forced the issue by handing in a transfer request.

I would be ****ed off, yeah, but I'd soon get over it if I subsequently had my best year and made the manager eat his (or her, might be a lady ) words.

[Dhav]

Well, that certainly puts paid to those who insisted on defending Rafa's 'man management' skills and doubted that it was indeed this, which caused Alonso to want out.

[Craig_H]

Rafa gave him the benefit of the doubt after one non-descript season. Two consecutive ones is taking the piss and quite rightly the manager looked to replace him with a more reliable and consistent Premiership performer.

I blame Alonso, obviously, although in his defence I totally disagreed with Rafa's reported demands on him at the time of the birth of Xabi's kid. He had every right to be there and a game of football means jack-**** when your child is being born.

It works both ways though doesnt it?

Rafa wanted to **** him off because he didnt think keeping him was best for the club. Fair enough. Alonso then decided he wanted out, because for whatever reason, he didnt think staying was best for him.

Each side of these scenarios is purely selfish and thinking about number one - which is fair enough.

But Rafa started this whole thing, with his OTT demands and lack of faith that Alonso would come good. And now he, and we, will suffer as a result, because we've lost one of the best midfielders on the planet.

I think this all comes back down to Rafa's tendency to see every player as a part of a machine, rather than a person.

Gerrard and Carra both mention it in their books. They're not people with emotions, they're pieces on a chess board, parts of a machine etc.

In some ways, this kind of 'robotic' style of management can work, but if you live by the sword, you die by the sword and on this occasion, Rafa's inability to tweak his man management style to suit the situation, has cost us.

[kingfunk]

I think it is hard to blame Alonso here, at the time everybody on this site was pissed about the way Rafa was treating him. This whole saga was done the wrong way from the start, It should never of been made public that rafa wanted rid of him, although I have a feeling that Juve might of had a role to play in this to try and drive the price down. However its done now, the best we can hope for is that a lesson has be learnt for the future and we move on.

[JohnDoe]

Rafa gave him the benefit of the doubt after one non-descript season. Two consecutive ones is taking the piss and quite rightly the manager looked to replace him with a more reliable and consistent Premiership performer.

You mean, like Lucas?

I'm not having a go at Lucas, but this whole sorry affair blew up in Rafa's face. Alonso was not that bad in those two seasons, IMO it's been blown out of proportions. He wasn't as good as last season or his first season, but he was far from being poor.

I blame Alonso, obviously, although in his defence I totally disagreed with Rafa's reported demands on him at the time of the birth of Xabi's kid. He had every right to be there and a game of football means jack-**** when your child is being born.

This was the cause of their fall out, and Rafa was definitely wrong in that.

Our manager ****ed up on this one.

[Shaggy]

It works both ways though doesnt it?

Rafa wanted to **** him off because he didnt think keeping him was best for the club. Fair enough. Alonso then decided he wanted out, because for whatever reason, he didnt think staying was best for him.

Each side of these scenarios is purely selfish and thinking about number one - which is fair enough.

But Rafa started this whole thing, with his OTT demands and lack of faith that Alonso would come good. And now he, and we, will suffer as a result, because we've lost one of the best midfielders on the planet.

I disagree with your overall assessment, but I do agree that Rafa started it when he (allegedly/reportedly) asked Xabi to miss the birth of his kid. If that is accurate, then clearly the seeds were sown then.

In terms of the other stuff, I don't think he could've had any qualms at all about being touted around after two seasons in which he contributed virtually nothing. They were campaigns disrupted by injury, true, but he was miles below his best and Rafa had to make a call to try and improve the team.

[Shaggy]

You mean, like Lucas?

I'm not having a go at Lucas, but this whole sorry affair blew up in Rafa's face. Alonso was not that bad in those two seasons, IMO it's been blown out of proportions. He wasn't as good as last season or his first season, but he was far from being poor.

Clearly I was referring to Barry.

[Rafa Justice]

So Xabi confirms what we suspected - that he is a complete pussy and started crying because his manager wanted sell him after two seasons of mediocrity.

Yup, Proving that he could have played better those 2 years, he simply wasn't motivated.

Thanks for the season and thanks for the transfer fee. Other than that, no thanks for giving us no notice. So **** off Xabi. Cunt.

[Craig_H]

I think it is hard to blame Alonso here, at the time everybody on this site was pissed about the way Rafa was treating him. This whole saga was done the wrong way from the start, It should never of been made public that rafa wanted rid of him, although I have a feeling that Juve might of had a role to play in this to try and drive the price down. However its done now, the best we can hope for is that a lesson has be learnt for the future and we move on.

I really dont hold out much genuine belief that Rafa will learn from this or change his ways. He never thinks he's ever wrong, so it's a mighty long shot.

[Craig_H]

I disagree with your overall assessment, but I do agree that Rafa started it when he (allegedly/reportedly) asked Xabi to miss the birth of his kid. If that is accurate, then clearly the seeds were sown then.

In terms of the other stuff, I don't think he could've had any qualms at all about being touted around after two seasons in which he contributed virtually nothing. They were campaigns disrupted by injury, true, but he was miles below his best and Rafa had to make a call to try and improve the team.

Alonso was merely the victim of the high standards he'd set himself, and was by no means anywhere near the worst performer during that time.

Why Rafa singled him out, i dont know.

[JohnDoe]

Clearly I was referring to Barry.

Well, he made a big mistake when he started to tout Alonso around without being certain that Barry would be in the bag and at what price.

[Craig_H]

Yup, Proving that he could have played better those 2 years, he simply wasn't motivated.

Thanks for the season and thanks for the transfer fee. Other than that, no thanks for giving us no notice. So **** off Xabi. Cunt.

Utterly pathetic.

"The Liverpool Way" ?

Embarrassing.

[Rafa Justice]

[Shaggy]

It works both ways though doesnt it?

Rafa wanted to **** him off because he didnt think keeping him was best for the club. Fair enough. Alonso then decided he wanted out, because for whatever reason, he didnt think staying was best for him.

Each side of these scenarios is purely selfish and thinking about number one - which is fair enough.

But Rafa started this whole thing, with his OTT demands and lack of faith that Alonso would come good. And now he, and we, will suffer as a result, because we've lost one of the best midfielders on the planet.

I think this all comes back down to Rafa's tendency to see every player as a part of a machine, rather than a person.

Gerrard and Carra both mention it in their books. They're not people with emotions, they're pieces on a chess board, parts of a machine etc.

In some ways, this kind of 'robotic' style of management can work, but if you live by the sword, you die by the sword and on this occasion, Rafa's inability to tweak his man management style to suit the situation, has cost us.

I understand your viewpoint totally, but I disagree ...obviously.

Tis definitely true though about Rafa seeing players as cogs. Whether that's right or wrong I admire Rafa immensely for having steadfast belief in his policies, for having the bollocks to stand by his beliefs in the face of a torrent of abuse and criticism from ****-loads of people who are clearly much less knowledgeable than him (I'm referring to pundits/'analysts' more so than fans/fans on forums etc). When you look back at Houllier, who seemingly changed his ideas on a whim (notably abandoning his defensive ideas for a purported attacking system, which was then duly abandoned when it went tits up and he reverted to type ), I think we're lucky to have a manager who knows his own mind. Yeah some will call him stubborn, and maybe he is overly so at times, but I've got total admiration for the man.