Alonso Speaks...

[Tee]

Personally, I hope Xabi gets really homesick playing in Spain and comes back to Liverpool next Summer.

[Shaggy]

The first mediocre year: Helped Liverpool reach their second Champions League final in three years and offered a new five year contract (despite rumoured interest form Juve and Barcelona).

The second mediocre year: Started well but was injured. Brought back too soon, by the manager, and struggled. Decided to be with his wife at the birth of his first child (rather than play a football game – what a cunt!). Returned to form by the end of the season and was part of the Spain squad that won the European Championship.

Sold a year later for £30m.

That is some mediocre player.

No-one thinks he's a mediocre footballer but do you seriously believe he played anywhere near his best for those two seasons? You thought his form was acceptable?

[red g]

No-one thinks he's a mediocre footballer but do you seriously believe he played anywhere near his best for those two seasons? You thought his form was acceptable?

he played his best football after he had decided he wanted to leave

interesting that

[Shaggy]

I remember starting this thread - it's an interesting read now.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=45864&highlight=enigma

Obviously not everyone agreed with me but it's clear his level of performance wasn't pleasing everybody - far from it.

[kingfunk]

I think Aquilani is going to be a way better player that Alonso. My only concern is that I hope it is not too late by the time he is fully match fit.

[certifiable]

Yep, But we cannot ignore the role that the yanks have played in this saga either, I dont think that Alonso would have being touted around if rafa was not under such cash restraints, Someone had to go to raise funds, I think the reason Alonso was singled out was personal (Because he decided to be there for the birth of his child and not with the squad). That is a small problem with rafa, if you cross him he cannot let it go.

Think this is the nub. Rafa is uber-professional to the point of obsessiveness, and perhaps to detriment of his private life. Didn't he delay going back to Spain when his father died, because we had a match of some sort?! This to me was going to far, the likes of a death/birth in family should take precedence over everything else.

But Rafas perfectionism/obsessiveness wouldn't even allow him to leave immediately on his fathers death

Now I don't remember if this was before or after Xabi's family matter (his kids birth). But it seems he held Xabi to the same exacting standards he puts on himself as regards job before practically anything. I think in this instance, Xabi was right to go for his child's birth and that Rafa, while I think he should have gone immediately on his fathers death, it's his decision, but he shouldn't have held Xabi up as some kind of bad role model for wanting to go tend to his family matter.

Think that was unrealistic and selfish of Rafa and was when the relationship died, reading between the lines of Xabi's interview.

[Shaggy]

Rafa missed his Dad's funeral but we were in Tokyo at the time. Unlike over here, they bury the deceased within 24 hours of their death - so clearly he wouldn't have been able to make it even if he'd opted to go.

[Shaggy]

That is a small problem with rafa, if you cross him he cannot let it go.

True but Ferguson's the same - he's been crossed by the likes of Beckham, Stam, Keane and many more and ****ed them all off.

[kingfunk]

Think this is the nub. Rafa is uber-professional to the point of obsessiveness, and perhaps to detriment of his private life. Didn't he delay going back to Spain when his father died, because we had a match of some sort?! This to me was going to far, the likes of a death/birth in family should take precedence over everything else.

But Rafas perfectionism/obsessiveness wouldn't even allow him to leave immediately on his fathers death

Now I don't remember if this was before or after Xabi's family matter (his kids birth). But it seems he held Xabi to the same exacting standards he puts on himself as regards job before practically anything. I think in this instance, Xabi was right to go for his child's birth and that Rafa, while I think he should have gone immediately on his fathers death, it's his decision, but he shouldn't have held Xabi up as some kind of bad role model for wanting to go tend to his family matter.

Think that was unrealistic and selfish of Rafa and was when the relationship died, reading between the lines of Xabi's interview.

[JohnDoe]

I remember starting this thread - it's an interesting read now.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=45864&highlight=enigma

Obviously not everyone agreed with me but it's clear his level of performance wasn't pleasing everybody - far from it.

I've read that thread again and I've reached the conclusion that I am awesome.

[Shaggy]

I've read that thread again and I've reached the conclusion that I am awesome.

Edit - just read the last two pages (having read 1-4 before I posted it here) and it's a very good thread indeed. And it was one of mine as well!

[DannyMan2006]

Some ridiculous comments on here. But I do agree with BOTH view points.

Last season I had no complaints when we looked set to sell Xabi. IMO he had been poor and I thought that we needed a different approach to games. At the time I couldn't see how a midfield of Xabi and Mascherano could work as I thought it was too static and lacking in movement. I wasn't totally sold on Barry either for that matter, but he had impressed me for England and Villa and I thought he would do well at Anfield.

When Xabi stayed and we didn't sign Barry I was not personally gutted, just a bit gutted that our manager had not been backed in his decisions, especially when it all came out in the wash that Barry had been his top transfer target.

Then the season started and Alonso started to impress. He started to move the ball quicker and my biggest problem with his play was eradicated, he was no longer caught in possession of the ball in dangerous areas. His quickened pace suprised the opposition too, as is witnessed in the number of red cards the opposition got.

I wouldn't say that Alonso started the season like a house on fire, but the fans backed him fully and showed their delight at him staying by throwing accolades his way and supporting him to the max even when he had quiet games. He grew as the season went on and was a vital component in the team that pushed Man Utd all the way. He was a professional to the last. And a top one at that.

Now someone on this very site has a quote in their signature that goes on about how a man who can't change his opinion is a fool, or something like that anyway. Well Rafa changed his opinion on Xabi. He was also a professional and lest we not forget that at times last year it was Xabi who was picked ahead of Mascherano, clear evidence that he himself did not hold grudges towards Xabi.

When the season ended Rafa it seems wanted Xabi to stay. But he didn't want to and the rest is history. We all move on.

Now it is clear from what Xabi said that Rafas attempts to sell him was the final straw as far as he was concerned. It seems he was pissed at the way he was treated after missing the Inter game by Rafa, but he got over that, as did Rafa. But after being hawked to Juventus there was no way back.

But why? Why could Alonso not change his mind. Was it personal pride, was it vanity? I thought Alonso to be more intelligent than that. I think it is clear that Rafas actions were not the only reason that Alonso went. I think a lot also had to do with the offer Madrid presented him with, but that's only my personal opinion.

Sometime in October we are going to see Aquilani take to the field and we are going to find out whether Rafas grand plan of last season is worth a damn. He wanted a mobile forward thinking midfielder. Well now he's got one, one more so than Barry or Alonso.

I think then we will find out how right or wrong Rafa was in his attempts to sell Alonso last summer. And if he's a success I'm damn sure everyone will forget about Alonso.

I don't remember Keegan leaving because I wasn't born. And I'll not compare Aquilani to the greatest player in our history. But the sentiment stands. No player is irreplaceable.

I should add that I don't remember anyone in all the time Alonso has been here saying how vital he is to our continued success, and i include the media in that. When Gerrard or Torres were out it was all about how much we'd struggle, with Alonso it was hardly mentioned. So I am personally quite confident he will be replaced.

All depends on this new system working I guess.

[DannyMan2006]

I remember starting this thread - it's an interesting read now.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=45864&highlight=enigma

Obviously not everyone agreed with me but it's clear his level of performance wasn't pleasing everybody - far from it.

I've read that thread again and I've reached the conclusion that I am awesome.

I've read that back and we were all wrong. Everyone (including me) pointed to the fact that Xabi was a good player, but needed better players around him to bring out his full potential.

But that was wrong. All he needed to do was start passing the ball quicker and move with the ball slightly more to protect it. That is the only change Alonso made in his game last season and it had a dramatic improvement. He certainly didn't get surrounded by better players, with Riera the only decent purchase that summer.

[red g]

I've read that back and we were all wrong. Everyone (including me) pointed to the fact that Xabi was a good player, but needed better players around him to bring out his full potential.

But that was wrong. All he needed to do was start passing the ball quicker and move with the ball slightly more to protect it. That is the only change Alonso made in his game last season and it had a dramatic improvement. He certainly didn't get surrounded by better players, with Riera the only decent purchase that summer.

or to roll out that old football cliche.....

'he was playing for a move'

[DannyMan2006]

or to roll out that old football cliche.....

'he was playing for a move'

I don't think he was, but I guess we'll never know. The only fact as Rafa would say is that after we tried to sell him we saw a dramatic improvement in his game.