Tom Hicks Talks

[Guest]

The point Being Fredo is they said in their press conference that NO DEBT would be placed on the club.

They lied.

Maybe that's because they didn't foresee the financial constraints that cropped up. At the end of the day, this is a business and there's no place for sentiments, fans or not. Yes, this is bad and stinks of ****ing American capitalism, but the club is to them a commodity.

How would it have been any different. We were 'whoring' ourselves to the highest bidder and every one of us in here were in favour of the club being sold in the first place, because that was the 'norm' and we feared we would be left behind etc ... We've got to expect Joe nobody's to come into our club and do whatever they want with it.

I do agree that we can't lie down and let some other clown **** up our club, but after careful thinking and criticizing them in the past, I don't think they could do any better than they are doing, as things stand.

Yes they lied, but let's get over that and try to give them the benefit of the doubt. We've signed Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Reina etc and we've become very competitive on the field. That's what matters to me.

[EwarWoo]

It amazes me how easily people can just, not only 'forgive and forget' this, but act as if there's no reason to doubt what those cunts say.

It's not all that black and white but.

Like it or not, they're our owners, and there's little chance of that changing in the near future.

What are we supposed to do? Throw out every good thing that happens along with all the bad until the day they leave? That could be an hell of a long time.

They're not forgiven. They're far from beyond doubt. But seeing everything in a negative light isn't achieving anything.

[Pacman]

The problem I think is that some people have almost become resigned to their tenure now. Its flagrantly obvious we can't force them out or persuade them to sell up quickly, perhaps were it not for the "global economic downturn" we may have had a chance but that's just not going to happen. I know, SOS and all that, but it isn't, as CraigH keeps repeating the only real way to hurt them is also to hurt the club, stop buying tickets and merchandise on a global level... but that isn't happening either.

It is obvious that they have done some things to improve our global merchandising, sponsorship etc, things which we had let slide massively under Moores/Parry. The problem being that the money generated is currently going to help them pay off the money they used to buy the club, rather than being used for the benefit of the team. As time goes on its not unreasonable to think that we may start to see more than we are now, eventually they'll have paid off the debt.... but in the meantime we may be losing out on our best chances in decades to actually win this league. Had Rafa been allowed a net spend of £15m over the last 12 months, rather than actually being £15m in profit, I think we'd currently be genuine favourites for the title. As it is we're just in the mix instead. I'm not sure anyone can really argue that point, though I'm sure someone will try.

[EwarWoo]

Had Rafa been allowed a net spend of £15m over the last 12 months, rather than actually being £15m in profit, I think we'd currently be genuine favourites for the title. As it is we're just in the mix instead. I'm not sure anyone can really argue that point, though I'm sure someone will try.

Had Fergie been given a net spend of 15m they'd be back to dead cert favorites.

Had Arsenal been given a net spend of 15m, they could well have been.

It definitely was a ****ed up window. But that's just it. It wasn't our window was ****ed up it was a ****ed up window full stop. So despite everything else I do find it hard to lay that one down on 'em with the certainty everyone seems to have.

[The Birdman]

Or maybe we should focus on the fact that good old Tommy and George said no debt would be placed on our club when they bought it yet now he is talking about reducing the debt?

Good old Tom Hicks hey such a stand up guy.

I can't believe people thought debt wasn't going to be put upon the club whoever bought us.
Very ****ing naive, even if we went with DIC there would be debt against Liverpool FC, that is common sense, I guess people are outraged by their own stupidity as much as H&G lies.
I'm not pro H&G but it was pretty obvious they didn't have enough spare cash to buy ever player Rafa wanted and build the new stadium without putting a penny of debt onto the club.

[Pacman]

Maybe that's because they didn't foresee the financial constraints that cropped up. At the end of the day, this is a business and there's no place for sentiments, fans or not. Yes, this is bad and stinks of ****ing American capitalism, but the club is to them a commodity.

How would it have been any different. We were 'whoring' ourselves to the highest bidder and every one of us in here were in favour of the club being sold in the first place, because that was the 'norm' and we feared we would be left behind etc ... We've got to expect Joe nobody's to come into our club and do whatever they want with it.

I do agree that we can't lie down and let some other clown **** up our club, but after careful thinking and criticizing them in the past, I don't think they could do any better than they are doing, as things stand.

Yes they lied, but let's get over that and try to give them the benefit of the doubt. We've signed Torres, Mascherano, Agger, Reina etc and we've become very competitive on the field. That's what matters to me.

But the debt was put on the club from day one Fredo the ecomonic down turn has nothing to do with that fact. So them not foreseeing the financial contraints is an argument that is basically flawed and a non starter because this happened from day one. The fact that the work hasn't started on the new stadium can be put down to the recession I have no problem with that I do have problems with blantent lies, undermining our manager and playing out their feuds with each other, Parry and Rafa in public.

By the way we signed Agger and Reina when Moores was in charge.

[Guest]

But the debt was put on the club from day one Fredo the ecomonic down turn has nothing to do with that fact. So them not foreseeing the financial contraints is an argument that is basically flawed and a non starter because this happened from day one. The fact that the work hasn't started on the new stadium can be put down to the recession I have no problem with that I do have problems with blantent lies, undermining our manager and playing out their feuds with each other, Parry and Rafa in public.

By the way we signed Agger and Reina when Moores was in charge.

Debt was always going to be put against our club. You can't believe that anyone would put their own money (£175m of it) into the club like that. That doesn't make any sense on pure business terms.

There are more 'eyes' nowadays than ever before, therefore all of the club's dealings will be scrutinized. To me, it's clear we're upping up a notch on the commercial level and we're bringing in more commercial acumen into the club. That surely is a good thing.

Either we remain a good family type of club, lagging behind in terms of commercial revenues etc, or we adopt a more forward thinking approach, even though it entails us to some debts at first. You can't make everyone happy, never will.

I just think that you're in a minority (full blown against the Americans). That is why there are groups vehemently involved to try and redress the balance.

[Pacman]

I can't believe people thought debt wasn't going to be put upon the club whoever bought us.
Very ****ing naive, even if we went with DIC there would be debt against Liverpool FC, that is common sense, I guess people are outraged by their own stupidity as much as H&G lies.
I'm not pro H&G but it was pretty obvious they didn't have enough spare cash to buy ever player Rafa wanted and build the new stadium without putting a penny of debt onto the club.

I think you've mis understood what I and others are saying.

We aren't thick we know full well they haven't got £500mil to spend on a new stadium and that debt to build this would be placed on the club. What we have a problem with is the fact that these clowns puchased our club and then placed the debt from purchasing Liverpool back on to the club when they said in their press conference this wouldn't happen. Basically they lied. We are know better off than when Moores was in charge and in fact we are much worse off.

No-one has ever said we want them to buy every player Rafa wants but we would like our manager to have a budget and not have to make a profit in a transfer window.

[BrianF80]

I can see 2 big reasons why you would, Premier league and Champions league. Totally outweigh the reasons why you wouldn't.

Fair enough, in this hypothetical scenario you'd rather bring in a stop gap, I'd rather look to the medium term and bring in world class. Vive la Différence!.

[Craig_H]

We aren't the only club in 'debt'.

They've had to buy the club right? For how much? £175m or so? Plus the club were already in debt of around £60m, so I don't see anything wrong in that? There's no evidence that they've put more debt into the club.

Before the yanks, the club was in debt to the tune of about £60m.

You think the debt is now still about £60m?

[BrianF80]

I think you've mis understood what I and others are saying.

We aren't thick we know full well they haven't got £500mil to spend on a new stadium and that debt to build this would be placed on the club. What we have a problem with is the fact that these clowns puchased our club and then placed the debt from purchasing Liverpool back on to the club when they said in their press conference this wouldn't happen. Basically they lied. We are know better off than when Moores was in charge and in fact we are much worse off.

No-one has ever said we want them to buy every player Rafa wants but we would like our manager to have a budget and not have to make a profit in a transfer window.

I know no-one cares about the semantics but, the debt is not on the club. It's on a holding company, they did not lie, they just hoodwinked you.

[Craig_H]

I know no-one cares about the semantics but, the debt is not on the club. It's on a holding company, they did not lie, they just hoodwinked you.

Every consequence of the debt being on the club, is now happening anyway.

The club is paying off the debt, to its detriment. So for all intents and purposes, the debt is on the club. If the debt isnt repaid, the club will go into administration and be deduced 10 points.

They lied. Simple.

[MrMichael]

Had Fergie been given a net spend of 15m they'd be back to dead cert favorites.

Had Arsenal been given a net spend of 15m, they could well have been.

It definitely was a ****ed up window. But that's just it. It wasn't our window was ****ed up it was a ****ed up window full stop. So despite everything else I do find it hard to lay that one down on 'em with the certainty everyone seems to have.

This is true, it was a ****ed up window. However the fact remains that a lot of available transfer funds did disappear this summer. Simply having spent that recouped from Keane would have seen us in a stronger position, that was money we'd already bloody spent from last years budget ffs. Having pushed ManU so close last season, really punching at the top of our squads weight in doing so many would say, we could have done without starting this season with a bit more depth. One or two more additions, which would have taken place I believe where it not for the black hole, could have made that couple of point difference that might decide the title. I'm not certain of that, but I really do fear it.

[Pacman]

Debt was always going to be put against our club. You can't believe that anyone would put their own money (£175m of it) into the club like that. That doesn't make any sense on pure business terms.

There are more 'eyes' nowadays than ever before, therefore all of the club's dealings will be scrutinized. To me, it's clear we're upping up a notch on the commercial level and we're bringing in more commercial acumen into the club. That surely is a good thing.

Either we remain a good family type of club, lagging behind in terms of commercial revenues etc, or we adopt a more forward thinking approach, even though it entails us to some debts at first. You can't make everyone happy, never will.

I just think that you're in a minority (full blown against the Americans). That is why there are groups vehemently involved to try and redress the balance.

That would be an interesting poll and I think you would be proved wrong.

Perhaps you can forget the debt situation but how about the public spat between Hicks and Parry? The owners going behind the managers back to try and lure Klinnsman in as manager? Their public feud meaning we have 2 owners who aren't speaking to each other? Our previous owner saying in the local press that the sale has been a disater and if he would have known it would have turned out this way then things would have been different?

I suppose that's just football hey?

[Guest]

Before the yanks, the club was in debt to the tune of about £60m.

You think the debt is now still about £60m?

£60m + whatever they bought the club for and + whatever we've 'spent' buying players. So yes, we're approx. £250m in debt and that makes sense to me.