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**Tee** · 22-10-09, 10:06 AM

Agree with almost all of that.

Have to say I cannot see Insua, Ngog or Spearing having a long term future here. Kelly on the other hand looks a genuine prospect (and no I am not just judging him from Tuesday's performance alone).

Unfortunately we have quantity right now rather than quality, so our options for quality players coming in are very limited when we have injuries. We must have the largest squad in world football.

**knockers** · 22-10-09, 10:10 AM

Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere in another thread, not sure where to put it if not but...

Rafael Benítez: 10 mistakes that have cost Liverpool

This summer's transfer strategy
Rafael Benítez has purposely avoided conflict with Liverpool's owners, George Gillett and Tom Hicks, this season but there are signs diplomacy over their budget restrictions is beginning to wane as pressure mounts. "We signed three players and we wanted four," he said before Lyon. The fourth, it is safe to assume, was a forward. Not signing quality cover for Fernando Torres, and being so short of strikers that David Ngog started the critical game against the French and Andriy Voronin was reluctantly brought back from loan at Hertha Berlin, is proving catastrophic

Handling senior players
It is an exaggeration to say Benítez is a completely cold fish with players; sometimes he offers congratulations before pointing out their tactical failings. Even in Istanbul. That detachment is viewed as a positive when results go well, but presented as a weakness when they don't. A request that "senior players take the responsibility and take us forward" after defeat to Aston Villa did not sit well with its intended targets. Outside the dressing room, however, few dispute that Benítez was right

Trusting the owners
Protracted contract negotiations concluded in March with Benítez in control of transfer policy, the youth set-up and being promised around £20m to spend this summer above whatever he raised through sales. Hicks and Gillett had sold their master tactician a dummy. As summer progressed it materialised that the improved contracts given to Steven Gerrard, Torres, Dirk Kuyt, Daniel Agger, Yossi Benayoun and José Reina were coming out of Benítez's transfer budget. Yet another reason for the Spaniard to rue the day David Moores accepted the Americans' higher bid for his majority shareholding

Poor signings
While Benítez has been restrained on some transfers – such as when he discovered he had less than £2m for a new central defender late this summer, hence Sotirios Kyrgiakos – he has squandered plenty. Inexpensive errors such as Josemi, Antonio Núñez and Mauricio Pellegrino were excusable as he overhauled the squad and concentrated resources on Xabi Alonso, Javier Mascherano or Fernando Torres. But to be six seasons into the job and have a squad utterly reliant on two players, one inherited, while £11m Ryan Babel was left on the bench against Lyon is damning

Control of the youth academy
Martin Kelly was exceptional against Lyon on Tuesday, though not only in the sense of his impressive full debut. It is a rarity to witness a home-grown, local teenager being deemed worthy of consideration under Benítez and the dearth of talent coming through is why the Spaniard copied Arsène Wenger's global recruitment policy. The issue prompted a fallout with Steve Heighway, revered by Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher, but many would argue this summer's radical overhaul of the academy system was long overdue

Distracted by events beyond his control
Gérard Houllier's presence at Anfield on Tuesday served as warning of what can happen to Liverpool managers who lose sight of the bigger picture. Benítez was the refreshing antidote to the stale odour of Houllier's final years when he took charge in 2004. Out went a fixation with statistics or United's greater spending power as a means to defend poor performances and an obsession with ex-Liverpool players turned media pundits. That is creeping back

Too passive over international call-ups
The Liverpool manager frequently complains about international commitments and their repercussions but rarely prevents his players, even those carrying slight injuries, from joining their national teams. Unlike, for example, Manchester United, Liverpool players do not often develop sudden, mysterious problems ahead of an international week. Torres suffered three injuries with Spain last season that may have cost Liverpool the title. Spain and England had qualified for the World Cup before their recent qualifiers, but Gerrard and Torres travelled with slight injuries and returned far worse

The 'list of facts' against Ferguson
Few managers would dispute the truth in Benítez's accusations against "the Ayatollah" in January – just not in public – with the list representing years of simmering frustration and arguably extended by events at Old Trafford this season. It was also a deliberate tactical ploy by the Spaniard, designed to heighten pressure on United ahead of their home game with Chelsea and as Liverpool looked to extend their Premier League lead at Stoke. Results that weekend ensured it backfired badly and Benítez has been hostage to the outburst ever since

Xabi Alonso's transfer
Or, rather, dealing with it. Getting £30m for a player who wanted to join Real Madrid, double what Benítez had been hawking him around Europe for the previous summer following two mediocre campaigns by the Spanish midfielder, was decent business. Replacing him with Alberto Aquilani, an Italy international who may well re-energise Liverpool but has been injured since March, was a risk that has heightened with every defeat. Liverpool could not afford patience this season and Aquilani's absence, coupled with Javier Mascherano's poor form, has brought an overreliance on Lucas Leiva; not the disaster many claim but a squad player all the same

Taking on too many internal battles
It is over five years now of being frustrated with Liverpool's transfer dealings, waiting for new investment, being caught in the middle of a divided regime when it finally came, seeing his job offered to Jürgen Klinsmann, falling out with trusted lieutenant Pako Ayesterán, involved in an internal power struggle with former chief executive Rick Parry and all the while seeing United, Chelsea and now Manchester City improve relentlessly. Many scraps were unavoidable, many were self-inflicted, and it is not alarmist to suggest that Benítez is looking battle-weary

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...ols%20troubles.

**Marky** · 22-10-09, 10:18 AM

Aurelio is good enough.

I do think we could be doing with an extra left back though.

**The Birdman** · 22-10-09, 10:28 AM

PTP - No disrespect but just covering your 1st 3 points above Arbeloa wanted to leave and was running his contract down so Rafa had no choice when you consider how tight his budget is to start with.
Hyypia was offered a new deal with a coaching role at the end of it - he chose to leave to play as much football as possible before his career ends, we can't argue with that after all he did for us.
Alonso wanted to leave and was vocal (within the club) about it, Rafa thought he would have some/all/the bulk of his fee to re-invest after making a 20m profit on him.

I don't see how any of those are Rafa's fault. Yes the squad is probably weaker but that's player power for you.

**The Birdman** · 22-10-09, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by Tee View Post

Agree with almost all of that.

Have to say I cannot see Insua, Ngog or Spearing having a long term future here. Kelly on the other hand looks a genuine prospect (and no I am not just judging him from Tuesday's performance alone).

Unfortunately we have quantity right now rather than quality, so our options for quality players coming in are very limited when we have injuries. We must have the largest squad in world football.

Spearing has absolutely no chance and is only still here because he is a local lad, Insua has just made the Argentinian full side and Ngog has definate potential so I would say those 2 and Kelly will all feature over the next few years

**ronanm** · 22-10-09, 10:35 AM

Originally posted by Marky View Post

Aurelio is good enough.

I do think we could be doing with an extra left back though.

Aurelio is more than good enough imo. I think Rafa is trying to emulate the Valencia team he managed (and Hector Cuper built) by having attacking wing backs. I don't think we have the first XI players to do that yet (certainly not players with technical ability like that Valencia side - even Lyon were playing some great stuff at times the other night). Insua is very disappointing for me.

**dww** · 22-10-09, 10:47 AM

Aurelio and Riera are definitely good enough for most (if not all) PL teams and I would if it hadn't been argued about long and pointlessly elsewhere have included Lucas in that list

Is don't think that the quality of the squad in terms of individual ability is the problem I think that the main concern has been losing two of the calming leadership influences in the squad when Alonso and Hyppia left.

I really don't think we could have done more than offering Hyppia player/coach role as we did. Anything else would have been insulting his intelligence - there is no way he would have been more than 4th choice this year.

The Guardian article is self contradictory and ranges criticism that could be put against any manger. For example how on earth was Rafa supposed to improve the academy without control - control was a battle he had to fight if he wanted it to improve. Why is it that Rafa deflecting attention from bad performances by talking about spending different (and worse) that Fergie going on a rant at the ref or any number of other things that he does? The trusting the owners thing - how on earth could Rafa or any other manager hope to get them to give him money they don't have? FFS it's a daft criticism.

**PTP** · 22-10-09, 10:50 AM

fair enough - though i will point out I was not blaming rafa for those things. - I was trying to argue that if Liverpool as a whole, was being run well, from top to bottom - then arguably Arbeloa/Alonso/Hyypia wouldn't have left for whatever reasons because they would have wanted to stay and be part of a potential title winning side.

And if those three were admant on leaving then, we would have replaced them as well signing the players we did - so for me on paper before the start of the summer transfer window - i felt we needed competition for Arbeloa, Another quality centre mid, A left winger and a top class striker. - We signed johnson but lost arbeloa so in effect still needed that competition, we signed aquilani but lost alonso so again still short there. Ok hyypia went and arguably we signed the greek dude for that role as i have pointed out. But Still no left winger or striker. We just didn't move forward at all.

**dww** · 22-10-09, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by PTP View Post

fair enough - though i will point out I was not blaming rafa for those things. - I was trying to argue that if Liverpool as a whole, was being run well, from top to bottom - then arguably Arbeloa/Alonso/Hyypia wouldn't have left for whatever reasons because they would have wanted to stay and be part of a potential title winning side.

And if those three were admant on leaving then, we would have replaced them as well signing the players we did - so for me on paper before the start of the summer transfer window - i felt we needed competition for Arbeloa, Another quality centre mid, A left winger and a top class striker. - We signed johnson but lost arbeloa so in effect still needed that competition, we signed aquilani but lost alonso so again still short there. Ok hyypia went and arguably we signed the greek dude for that role as i have pointed out. But Still no left winger or striker. We just didn't move forward at all.

I don't think we needed a left winger to be fair. The competition for Johnson looks like it could come from Kelly which I think is a healthy situation. I would have rather kept Arbeloa too but replacing him wasn't a priority.

Buying Kyriakos was a move made a necessity by injuries but I don't think he has answered the real problems going forward. One for one replacements in the squad weren't what we needed (unless we are talking about Babel as utility forward perhaps) apart from for Alonso. I though the summer before last we were light on experienced players who had won leagues in the squad and this was only mostly compensated by having driven individuals like Carragher, Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano, Alonso and Hyypia. Now we have lost two of that list and they happen to be the two calming influences - which is key to a system like that implemented by Rafa.

I agree though that the leadership from the top was week - if G&H had been in a position and willing to fund an extra player and to get first choice replacements I think we could have really kicked on.

**BigChief** · 22-10-09, 01:26 PM

I think Rafa's mistakes was not trusting the youngsters enough. Insua was 'forced' upon him when Aurelio just wouldn't stop getting injured. Why buy Dossena before trying Insua? That was last summer. This summer we're back to square one. No budget for a forward, OK, he's trying Ngog but how many of us are pulling our hair out seeing Nemeth score freely for AEK and Hungary? I know you'll mention hingsight (i.e. Nemeth went off the boil, injured, etc) but he's been with our reserves for what, 3 years now!?

Youngsters are blooded in for moments like these. Many fall by the wayside but one or two stand up to be counted. Why persist with mediocrity (Lucas) during injury-ridden times when you can try out a youngster like Pachecho or Nemeth? What's the worst that can happen? We'll lose 4 games on the trot? Well at least the fans would have been happy we didn't waste this period of time. And Pachecho/Nemeth would have been truly blooded in.

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