Agger and Yossi

[Shaggy]

The way he controls the ball out of the air at times is ****ing sublime. Still, I don't think he is delivering enough as a striker, certainly not to warrant the amount they paid for him. But surprise surprise the media don't harp on about it.

[DannyMan2006]

It was more of an observation that a criticism.

Reece has explained exactly how I seen it. I don’t think it was a penalty, but so easily could have been. The post I replied to said Carra was back to his best, but I was merely pointing out how fine the margins are between success and failure, because even though Carra played as he did, if the referee had called the decisions otherwise then the ‘Carra is finished’ bandwagon would continue.

With that interpretation any challenge in the box could be a penalty. Ludicrous. It was a fantastic challenge that eliminated a goal scoring opportunity and as such it was a tackle that needed to be made. He made the correct decision, as he did so all match.

The margins are fine, Torres should have put us one up against Chelsea with a free header, Rooney should have done the same for Man Utd yesterday. Both goals could have seen opposite results. But I could point out at similar incidents in 95% of games.

[DannyMan2006]

I was interested to here Hansen say that Carragher plays better when he can stay deeper. It seems likely that Aggers greater pace and skill on the ball allows Carragher that freedom more than the more pedestrian Skrtel. I don't think it helps Carragher that our fullbacks are so progressive now though and the fact that they were relatively restrained against United probably helped too.

It is however very good to start having more of our best options available.

I do not agree that Agger is faster than Skrtel.

Hansen says Carra prefers to play deeper because he lacks the pace to really push up the field and as such can be caught out by the ball over the top. But as most defenders are slower than most strikers I think the same can be said about most defenders.

In Vidic and Ferdinand we are talking about two of the best defenders in world football (in most neutrals eyes) and both got done by a ball over the top thanks to the pace of Torres.

As Carra said yesterday, he was getting beat by Henry with ease 6 years a go and funnily enough no one mentioned his age then.

[javier_monsterano]

carra is far from finished.he's gone through a bad patch.which i am now certain is over and it's time he helped us win the league.still can't help remember when he scored a couple of own goals last season.

[DannyMan2006]

Yossi has already done much better than I expected him to do so when we first signed him. He deserves a place in the first XI, I just wouldn't know who to drop. Liverpool and Insua have suffered when he has played on the left this season.

Agger is great on the ball and an ideal partner for Carra (though I'd prefer either to have more pace). He is adept at bringing the ball out of defence and linking up the play with midfield. Something that has been missed without him.

Having said that, Skrtel was fantastic against Chelsea and showed signs of getting back to his best. If all three defenders can find form then we look to be in a very strong position once again.

[carheex]

I believe that Agger was one of the key reasons we played so much better than recently.
Fit again and in his preferred position, i think his class and quality in breaking up play, reading play and bringing the ball out of defense and distributing intelligently makes us a superior side.
Long may he remain fit as he adds something to the team.

As far as Yossi is concerned, for me he was MOM. He constantly beat his man, tracked back and once again has proved that he is far better then people ever gave him credit for. He is a vital starting 11 player.

Woohoo, we're now officially a 4-man team!

[DannyMan2006]

carra is far from finished.he's gone through a bad patch.which i am now certain is over and it's time he helped us win the league.still can't help remember when he scored a couple of own goals last season.

I don't think his bad patch has been as bad as people make out.

Most of our conceded goals have come from set pieces - hard to blame them on Carra. I just think he's come under increased pressure due to the failings of the team. Any defence that comes under increased pressure will ship more goals.

[javier_monsterano]

i couldn't watch the whole match due to internet problems,missed a few minutes here and there.did glen johnson stay back in defence more than he normally does?

[RedReet]

With that interpretation any challenge in the box could be a penalty. Ludicrous. It was a fantastic challenge that eliminated a goal scoring opportunity and as such it was a tackle that needed to be made. He made the correct decision, as he did so all match.

The margins are fine, Torres should have put us one up against Chelsea with a free header, Rooney should have done the same for Man Utd yesterday. Both goals could have seen opposite results. But I could point out at similar incidents in 95% of games.

Well technically it can. Especially if you take the man.

I didn’t watch the post match analysis and haven’t got to watch a reply of the match sober yet, so can’t properly argue whether the tackle was completely necessary or not. Although I didn’t think it was a penalty at the time, I can remember thinking that with such minimal contact on the ball and having caught Carrick so heavily, if the referee’s position wasn’t right he could easily have gave it. I think it was Carra that said himself that even if you play outstanding for 90 minutes but make one mistake that leads to a goal, that’s all that the fans remember.

So basically what all I was pointing out, even though it would have been a harsh penalty decision, if the ref had of given it, would all these people saying he’s back to his best still have been saying that or would they again be saying he’s past it. I think for a lot of people it would be the latter.

I don’t know why people are getting so defensive, I wasn’t criticising Carra.

[Shaggy]

i couldn't watch the whole match due to internet problems,missed a few minutes here and there.did glen johnson stay back in defence more than he normally does?

Without doubt. I think the fact he had Yossi ahead of him - who obviously doesn't offer the best protection - and their threat on the counter-attack meant it was a wise move. A few times during the game I was screaming at Johnson for not being on the overlap but it obviously worked for us.

[RedReet]

Without doubt. I think the fact he had Yossi ahead of him - who obviously doesn't offer the best protection - and their threat on the counter-attack meant it was a wise move. A few times during the game I was screaming at Johnson for not being on the overlap but it obviously worked for us.

I thought he defended very well. Argued with a ‘fan’ in the bar on last week who thinks he’s a poor player and of course a terrible defender.

Hope he was watching closely.

[dww]

I do not agree that Agger is faster than Skrtel.

Hansen says Carra prefers to play deeper because he lacks the pace to really push up the field and as such can be caught out by the ball over the top. But as most defenders are slower than most strikers I think the same can be said about most defenders.

In Vidic and Ferdinand we are talking about two of the best defenders in world football (in most neutrals eyes) and both got done by a ball over the top thanks to the pace of Torres.

As Carra said yesterday, he was getting beat by Henry with ease 6 years a go and funnily enough no one mentioned his age then.

May not be out and out pace but his acceleration seems to mean Agger gets to things quicker. I guess it could be down to positioning.

The depth on the pitch thing is a matter of degree though surely? That and the fact that it just emphasises the importance of the partnership as much as the individual ability in central defending.

Ferdinand has been (by his standards) very poor this season. I thought he actually did pretty well to get back at Torres - his problem was that he and Vidic hadn't properly tracked Torres initial movement and started at a disadvantage. Although to blame them would to some degree be unreasonably taking away from the staggering quality of Yossi's ball - which probably caused most of their problems.

[DannyMan2006]

Without doubt. I think the fact he had Yossi ahead of him - who obviously doesn't offer the best protection - and their threat on the counter-attack meant it was a wise move. A few times during the game I was screaming at Johnson for not being on the overlap but it obviously worked for us.

Also have to remember that Johnson was not 100% fit. It would have been daft for him to leave his post as often as normal with Evra and Giggs on the attack, but having come back from a groin injury I doubt he could have done anyway.

[DannyMan2006]

So basically what all I was pointing out, even though it would have been a harsh penalty decision, if the ref had of given it, would all these people saying he’s back to his best still have been saying that or would they again be saying he’s past it. I think for a lot of people it would be the latter.

I don’t know why people are getting so defensive, I wasn’t criticising Carra.

That's a fair enough point. But as I disagreed it was a penalty it would have been harsh having a go at Carra because a ref made a mistake and gave a penalty against him.

However, had Carra mistimed the challenge, we could be talking about something else completely, but as I said before, we could say the same of any challenge in the box.

Carra is a player who plays at the top level. If he mis-times challenges he can expect to get criticism. If he gives a poor performance he deserves the criticism. But he got the challenge spot on and had a great game, so he deserves all the praise he gets.

[javier_monsterano]

i'm not blaming carra for our bad form/results.but he has not been upto his usual standard.and he did admit to a couple of his mistakes ,bad first half v west ham and the mistake in injury time v chelsea.