Torres may need surgery

[flyboy]

It was about £16mil and it was money that wasn't made available to the manager. Is that his fault too?

thats bull**** ,rafa wouldnt have sold keane if he was told the money wouldnt go back into the kitty.he left it too late and ****ed up in the january transfer window.

[BFG]

thats bull**** ,rafa wouldnt have sold keane if he was told the money wouldnt go back into the kitty.he left it too late and ****ed up in the january transfer window.

Errm, surely one thing we know about Rafa is that if he sees a mistake has been made in the transfer market he's damn quick to cut his losses and rectify the situation? Have you ever considered the fact that Tottenham only came up with an acceptable deal late on in January. Losing Keane hardly hurt us post January last season did it genius?

If that money had been given to him this summer then I'm sure he would have used it The fact that we were in the bargain basement for a centre back is proof enough that he's never had a sniff of that money? Are you trying to say he has been given it and just not used it?

[JohnDoe]

It's a big problem that our two most important players can't finish a season without being out injured for about three months every year.

[flyboy]

BFG.the money was there... at least during that period.perhaps the offer came late but still you have to make provisions for that.you are right to say that keanes departure hardly hurt us last season,but not getting a replacement has hurt us NOW.

As for sotiris ,he was obviously a stop gap measure..it would have been extremely daft to spend around 10 million for a top CB when we already have agger skrtle and carra albeit most of them were injured but only agger's return was questionable and as prove the greek has only started twice in the league.

LFC is a 2 man team and its bcos of rafa

[DannyMan2006]

rafa hasnt learnt from the previous season when either torres or gerrard is injured nobody steps up to the plate.extremely naive not get a back up during the window.

Agreed.

we were skint, nobody wanted vrononin and babel

My only hope Red G is that Rafa had the wool pulled over his eyes in terms of transfer money available. Because if he was in a position from the start where he knew he would come up short then I would be pretty close to the Rafa is in great danger of losing his job camp.

Last January Rafa sold Keane and we got lucky in that towards the end of the season Yossi stepped up his game and Torres and Gerrard started to become available for games.

I came into this season hoping Gerrard and Torres stayed fit for the whole campaign, because I knew that was our only chance of winning the title. To go into a season hoping for such luck is already asking for trouble. People on this site will mention how we coped without them last year, but that argument does not take into account that last year we had a £19m striker that we could draft in.

Robbie Keane was by no means a great hit in front of goal, but he put a lot of work in and created chances for others. His misfiring in front of goal cost us in some games, but he was available to play and come in and do a job at important periods.

But I'm not going to sit here and say that Keane should not have been sold, because he didn't settle and Rafa was right to sell him. Where Rafa has cocked up is by not making a reserve striker to Torres/Gerrard an absoloute priority.

Because when Torres and Gerrard do not play, I seriously do not know where our next goal is coming from. To heap all that pressure on N'Gog is a joke. He is a promising young striker but is not good enough to shoulder the responsibility just yet. Whilst Voronin is simply not good enough to play as a point man, he shows nice flashes of class during approach play, but has an abysmal scoring record.

How a club as big as ours can come into a season lacking true class in depth in the most key area baffles me. We spent just shy of £40m in the summer so we can't say we had no money to spend. My only hope for Rafa is he thought he had more.

[BFG]

BFG.the money was there... at least during that period.perhaps the offer came late but still you have to make provisions for that.you are right to say that keanes departure hardly hurt us last season,but not getting a replacement has hurt us NOW.

As for sotiris ,he was obviously a stop gap measure..it would have been extremely daft to spend around 10 million for a top CB when we already have agger skrtle and carra albeit most of them were injured but only agger's return was questionable and as prove the greek has only started twice in the league.

LFC is a 2 man team and its bcos of rafa

Nonsense. We've got about 10 players missing, not 2. The Keane money was never there for Rafa, not in January and certainly not in the summer. It's extremely naive to believe he's sat on money when areas of the squad needed improvement. Any other manager would have the same constraints. He's made mistakes but there's noone better for LFC out there at this moment in time.

[DannyMan2006]

BFG.the money was there... at least during that period.perhaps the offer came late but still you have to make provisions for that.you are right to say that keanes departure hardly hurt us last season,but not getting a replacement has hurt us NOW.

As for sotiris ,he was obviously a stop gap measure..it would have been extremely daft to spend around 10 million for a top CB when we already have agger skrtle and carra albeit most of them were injured but only agger's return was questionable and as prove the greek has only started twice in the league.

LFC is a 2 man team and its bcos of rafa

Liverpool FC is not a 2 man team. It is a team short of strength in depth in the most vital area. We have some world class players in other areas of the pitch as well as up front when all first team players are available. And i would fancy our chances of beating any team in world football when all our players are fully fit. We also have some very able players in reserve to filter in the team and do a damn good job.

What we lack is a replacement for Torres, a player that could also ideally drop in behind him when Gerrard was out. Add that palyer and only the most ridiculous injury crisis (like the one at present) would effect us in such a great manner.

FWIW we are not the only club short of striking options. We play with one up top and have only one top class striker. Chelsea play with two up and have only two top class strikers. If Anelka or Drogba get injured they have to change their system and play Lampard behind the striker, or play the very weak Kalou up top.

[JohnDoe]

For me, the signs point that the Alonso money was pulled from Rafa very late in the window as a result of the banks' insistence to pay back some of the debt. I remember very clear quotes from Rafa on Voronin's situation that suggest he was after a striker but then a week or so later Rafa suddenly changed his tone and said Voronin might still have a role to play.

I don't believe Rafa knew the money would disappear when he's spent a significant amount on Glen Johnson. There is no doubt in my mind that the Alonso money as well as the Keane money has went into that £60m debt payment and Rafa's plans were seriously hurt in the summer as a result of G&H struggling to hit a new refinancing deal.

There is just no way you could convince me that Rafa looked at N'Gog and Voronin and said to himself that this was going to be our back up for Gerrard and Torres. No chance in hell.

[DannyMan2006]

Nonsense. We've got about 10 players missing, not 2. The Keane money was never there for Rafa, not in January and certainly not in the summer. It's extremely naive to believe he's sat on money when areas of the squad needed improvement. Any other manager would have the same constraints. He's made mistakes but there's noone better for LFC out there at this moment in time.

Rumour has it we made a late, late bid for Arshavin in January, but after he had already promised Arsenal he was joining them. And there is no doubt that Rafa did have the Keane money to spend, it's the lack of other forth coming transfer funds that cost us in the summer.

[red g]

Agreed.



My only hope Red G is that Rafa had the wool pulled over his eyes in terms of transfer money available. Because if he was in a position from the start where he knew he would come up short then I would be pretty close to the Rafa is in great danger of losing his job camp.

Last January Rafa sold Keane and we got lucky in that towards the end of the season Yossi stepped up his game and Torres and Gerrard started to become available for games.

I came into this season hoping Gerrard and Torres stayed fit for the whole campaign, because I knew that was our only chance of winning the title. To go into a season hoping for such luck is already asking for trouble. People on this site will mention how we coped without them last year, but that argument does not take into account that last year we had a £19m striker that we could draft in.

Robbie Keane was by no means a great hit in front of goal, but he put a lot of work in and created chances for others. His misfiring in front of goal cost us in some games, but he was available to play and come in and do a job at important periods.

But I'm not going to sit here and say that Keane should not have been sold, because he didn't settle and Rafa was right to sell him. Where Rafa has cocked up is by not making a reserve striker to Torres/Gerrard an absoloute priority.

Because when Torres and Gerrard do not play, I seriously do not know where our next goal is coming from. To heap all that pressure on N'Gog is a joke. He is a promising young striker but is not good enough to shoulder the responsibility just yet. Whilst Voronin is simply not good enough to play as a point man, he shows nice flashes of class during approach play, but has an abysmal scoring record.

How a club as big as ours can come into a season lacking true class in depth in the most key area baffles me. We spent just shy of £40m in the summer so we can't say we had no money to spend. My only hope for Rafa is he thought he had more.

with you on that pal, i woul be fuming if he thought Rafa knew what the score was and didnt sort one of our most pressing issues.

[red g]

QUOTE=JohnDoe;1451482]For me, the signs point that the Alonso money was pulled from Rafa very late in the window as a result of the banks' insistence to pay back some of the debt. I remember very clear quotes from Rafa on Voronin's situation that suggest he was after a striker but then a week or so later Rafa suddenly changed his tone and said Voronin might still have a role to play.

I don't believe Rafa knew the money would disappear when he's spent a significant amount on Glen Johnson. There is no doubt in my mind that the Alonso money as well as the Keane money has went into that £60m debt payment and Rafa's plans were seriously hurt in the summer as a result of G&H struggling to hit a new refinancing deal.

There is just no way you could convince me that Rafa looked at N'Gog and Voronin and said to himself that this was going to be our back up for Gerrard and Torres. No chance in hell.[/QUOTE]

which is why i am 100% in Rafa's camp, he must be fuming inside and feel well and truly isolated sometimes......which is why we all back our man an stick together in this ****e time

[BFG]

Rumour has it we made a late, late bid for Arshavin in January, but after he had already promised Arsenal he was joining them. And there is no doubt that Rafa did have the Keane money to spend, it's the lack of other forth coming transfer funds that cost us in the summer.

That's a huge statement and certainly not one that can be made on the strength of a 'rumour' we were after Arshavin who has recently said he had the choice of Spurs and Arsenal and didn't mention us.

I'd say there is next to no doubt that he didn't have that money, or he'd have spent it. And if he did have the opportunity to spend it it's a good ****ing job he didn't or we'd have been selling another big name last summer. Alonso's sale and the money Pompey owed us for Crouch is what paid for this summer's recruits. The Keane money went up in smoke.

[DannyMan2006]

For me, the signs point that the Alonso money was pulled from Rafa very late in the window as a result of the banks' insistence to pay back some of the debt. I remember very clear quotes from Rafa on Voronin's situation that suggest he was after a striker but then a week or so later Rafa suddenly changed his tone and said Voronin might still have a role to play.

I don't believe Rafa knew the money would disappear when he's spent a significant amount on Glen Johnson. There is no doubt in my mind that the Alonso money as well as the Keane money has went into that £60m debt payment and Rafa's plans were seriously hurt in the summer as a result of G&H struggling to hit a new refinancing deal.

There is just no way you could convince me that Rafa looked at N'Gog and Voronin and said to himself that this was going to be our back up for Gerrard and Torres. No chance in hell.

That is exactly my thoughts on it all. I wish there was a way to clarify all this TBH. It would get a lot of people of Rafas back and put the blame back where it should be - on the owners.

Make no mistake about it, we had a great chance to win the title this year. But the Team was not improved and it has cost us big time. I think if we make the CL knockout stages and show signs of improvement in the league money will be made available in January, it just should have been made available in the summer and we would not be in the position we are in.

[JohnDoe]

I don't think there is a better man for the job and I'd support him even if we finished 8th this season. I've thought about it long and hard, and I've come to the conclusion that most if not all of our failings this season have been beyond his control.

[BFG]

I don't think there is a better man for the job and I'd support him even if we finished 8th this season. I've thought about it long and hard, and I've come to the conclusion that most if not all of our failings this season have been beyond his control.

I agree with you and I think we'd still be doing just fine if all the injuries hadn't happened on top of all the other crap in the background.