My view & My view only....

[The_Positive_One]

Over the past few weeks I have gone on various forums (I will post this on all of them) and read a whole lot of different opinions… Sack Rafa, keep Rafa (my view), it’s the players fault, it’s the owners fault, it’s Rafa’s fault, along with insults being hurled from both camps, blah blah blah…

2day I sit in my office, unable to read anything, just thinking…. (my boss blocked my internet because I was on multiple forums, and not working…LOL) Thinking about everything that I have read, seen and listened too…

All this derision (word of the day) is being caused by the simple fact is we are still playing like crap at the moment…

Is it Rafa’s fault? Is it the players fault? Is it the owners fault??? What the feck is wrong??

For me it is multiple things, and as they say “Shat rolls downhill”…

1. The owners…. These for me are the primary culprits, and the rot began in 05, they began tying Rafa’s hands when it comes to transfers… See the FACTUAL article http://http://www.redandwhitekop.com...topic=249365.0If they (or Parry) had managed to get even ½ of the players Rafa has wanted in his time here, we’d have a completely different team… Rafa has managed to work some magic with the little bit of money he has been given, but he still has not been given enough to complete with teams with strong squads, who only have to fill in holes. I’m also not talking about 100 million, just enough to bring in his first choice signings…

2. Rafa the Gaffa…. He is stubborn, he is annoying, and extremely frustrating, but more often than not he gets it right… All managers make mistakes, all mangers make bad decisions, and no manager ever gets things right 100% of the time…. We have some crap players and while you can blame Rafa for them being here, you only need to look above him to understand why they are here…. Who will take his place??? There have been many banded about but seriously who will come here… Not because of the club, but because of the owners!!!! They will appoint the manager, not us!! Someone said on a forum…. We need a strong manger who will stand up to the yanks and give em what for!!! Really? Like the 2 stooges would hire someone that they will have to fight on a weekly basis!!! No class manager will come here without guaranteed assurances, no one…. As much as you hate Rafa he is the one thing steady with this club at the moment…. He has to stay….

3. The Players… I think that they came into this season believing the hype and thinking that they would just walk to the title… Their attitudes are not the same as they were last season. Ino Xabi is gone, but can his departure really affect the team that much? Rafa’s approach could be faulted here, but since we have no idea what is going on inside Melwood it is only speculation..No matter what the manager says, ands soon as the players are on the pitch they are on their own. They have to do the business, They have to carry out the tactics, and They have to show the heart and desire to get the job done… They have not done a good job have they… Rafa can coddle them, scream at them, whatever, but it is they who have to perform…

4. Injuries… Ok this is slowly turning into a bigger problem…. SG, Torres could both have surgery and be out months, then we have the flu, ankles, knees, groins etc... Here the bottom line is that others have to step up… Some of the others like Babel, Voronin, Reira, and co. need to seize these chances to prove their worth, and do the fecking business… If they don’t we could be in for a long season….

Now on to possible solutions….

1. Get rid of the owners…. This for me would fix everything else…. They do not understand the game, the culture, or the club… They consider this club, our club just a money making venture.
If the club is not making money then maybe they will go, but who or what will go with them….
Rafa? Players sold off??? Who knows what will happen if it is an ugly divorce…

2. Get rid of Rafa… (Stop your cheering!!!!) For me this would be a huge mistake… Rafa has done an amazing job with this club under the crappy ass ownership that we have in place. If Rafa goes I honestly do not see a world class manager coming in to work for them, under these conditions. Rafa has put himself in a key position to helping get rid of the owners… He has built a team, revamped the inner workings of the club, and could be key to ousting H&G. Sacking Rafa would have a huge effect on the future of this club, and I honestly believe that…

3. Get rid of players… Easy solution right??? Wrong…. We sell the crap we have, and have no money to fill their slots with quality, then what??? Play the youngsters, finish mid table, and win nothing for years…


The bottom line for me is to do whatever we need to, to get rid of H&G. Fixing this problem will eliminate a lot of what falls below them… Their lies, deceit, and money grubbing ways are killing us…

They are the problem, and with them gone, I can only see a bright future for Liverpool Football Club…….

(Sorry this turned out more Pro Rafa than I had hoped, my bad….)




SDM

[pondus]

Over the past few weeks I have gone on various forums (I will post this on all of them) and read a whole lot of different opinions… Sack Rafa, keep Rafa (my view), it’s the players fault, it’s the owners fault, it’s Rafa’s fault, along with insults being hurled from both camps, blah blah blah…

2day I sit in my office, unable to read anything, just thinking…. (my boss blocked my internet because I was on multiple forums, and not working…LOL) Thinking about everything that I have read, seen and listened too…

All this derision (word of the day) is being caused by the simple fact is we are still playing like crap at the moment…

Is it Rafa’s fault? Is it the players fault? Is it the owners fault??? What the feck is wrong??

For me it is multiple things, and as they say “Shat rolls downhill”…

1. The owners…. These for me are the primary culprits, and the rot began in 05, they began tying Rafa’s hands when it comes to transfers… See the FACTUAL article http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/...topic=249365.0If they (or Parry) had managed to get even ½ of the players Rafa has wanted in his time here, we’d have a completely different team… Rafa has managed to work some magic with the little bit of money he has been given, but he still has not been given enough to complete with teams with strong squads, who only have to fill in holes. I’m also not talking about 100 million, just enough to bring in his first choice signings…

2. Rafa the Gaffa…. He is stubborn, he is annoying, and extremely frustrating, but more often than not he gets it right… All managers make mistakes, all mangers make bad decisions, and no manager ever gets things right 100% of the time…. We have some crap players and while you can blame Rafa for them being here, you only need to look above him to understand why they are here…. Who will take his place??? There have been many banded about but seriously who will come here… Not because of the club, but because of the owners!!!! They will appoint the manager, not us!! Someone said on a forum…. We need a strong manger who will stand up to the yanks and give em what for!!! Really? Like the 2 stooges would hire someone that they will have to fight on a weekly basis!!! No class manager will come here without guaranteed assurances, no one…. As much as you hate Rafa he is the one thing steady with this club at the moment…. He has to stay….

3. The Players… I think that they came into this season believing the hype and thinking that they would just walk to the title… Their attitudes are not the same as they were last season. Ino Xabi is gone, but can his departure really affect the team that much? Rafa’s approach could be faulted here, but since we have no idea what is going on inside Melwood it is only speculation..No matter what the manager says, ands soon as the players are on the pitch they are on their own. They have to do the business, They have to carry out the tactics, and They have to show the heart and desire to get the job done… They have not done a good job have they… Rafa can coddle them, scream at them, whatever, but it is they who have to perform…

4. Injuries… Ok this is slowly turning into a bigger problem…. SG, Torres could both have surgery and be out months, then we have the flu, ankles, knees, groins etc... Here the bottom line is that others have to step up… Some of the others like Babel, Voronin, Reira, and co. need to seize these chances to prove their worth, and do the fecking business… If they don’t we could be in for a long season….

Now on to possible solutions….

1. Get rid of the owners…. This for me would fix everything else…. They do not understand the game, the culture, or the club… They consider this club, our club just a money making venture.
If the club is not making money then maybe they will go, but who or what will go with them….
Rafa? Players sold off??? Who knows what will happen if it is an ugly divorce…

2. Get rid of Rafa… (Stop your cheering!!!!) For me this would be a huge mistake… Rafa has done an amazing job with this club under the crappy ass ownership that we have in place. If Rafa goes I honestly do not see a world class manager coming in to work for them, under these conditions. Rafa has put himself in a key position to helping get rid of the owners… He has built a team, revamped the inner workings of the club, and could be key to ousting H&G. Sacking Rafa would have a huge effect on the future of this club, and I honestly believe that…

3. Get rid of players… Easy solution right??? Wrong…. We sell the crap we have, and have no money to fill their slots with quality, then what??? Play the youngsters, finish mid table, and win nothing for years…


The bottom line for me is to do whatever we need to, to get rid of H&G. Fixing this problem will eliminate a lot of what falls below them… Their lies, deceit, and money grubbing ways are killing us…

They are the problem, and with them gone, I can only see a bright future for Liverpool Football Club…….

(Sorry this turned out more Pro Rafa than I had hoped, my bad….)




SDM

How could you post this if your internet is blocked?

Oh, that's right, you can't read this

[dww]

1. I think the fact is that most managers have had to operate within constraints and while I don't think the owners have been great (or even particularly bad) I don't think they have until this season been unreasonably bad. Financially we are not the strongest team and we have to cut our cloth accordingly. The biggest problem has been the failure to allow Rafa to have complete control of the youth/development areas of the club from day one. A lack of trust has meant that we have failed to have an integrated system and hence potentially missed opportunities to develop players into more useful squad options.

I'm still undecided about the way this summer panned out - the Johnson and Aquilani transfers were the sort of top choice for a few positions signings that people have called out for but that is balanced by the sale of Alonso for big moeny and the fact that both had factors that made the purchase more attractive. In Johnsons case the fact we might never otherwise see the Crouch money and in Aquilanis case his injury appears to have allowed us to reduce his price and make the fee largely dependent on performance. It was an ideal opportunity to strengthen and really improve but the loss of leaders in Hyypia and Alonso and the gamble on Aquilani has cost us momentum. If Aquilani was the only viable option financially then I think the owners need to look at themselves if not then Rafa has to shoulder the blame. It is quite possible that the problem was more about timing and the Johnson transfer and had Alonso gone earlier we may have been able to get Barry. It is a complicated situation and to be honest Alonso wanting to leave is the cause and the root of that problem seems equally difficult to fully understand.

2. I'm not sure Rafa is any more stubborn than any other top manager. He simply has slightly different ideas to some and is less open with the media than Wenger which leads to a constant drip feed of criticism. In my view he is by far and away the best candidate to be Liverpool manager for the foreseeable future.

3. For whatever confluence of reasons we lacked leaders in the playing ranks when we went into the season and we have paid for it. A number of players have been asked to be more integral members of the team and play a bigger role and the results have been mixed. Skrtel has regressed, Lucas has grown as a player but not into a leader, Insua has not come on but he is learning, Ngog has improved but has not become a leading light and Babel has continued to frustrate and disappoint.

4. The injuries have been a real problem with top candidates for growth as players like Agger out and Gerrard and Torres out or below fitness. Rafa has to take some level of responsibility for buying Aquilani and assembling a fragile squad with Agger, Gerrard, Torres and Aurelio as injury prone key members often without suitable backups. On the flip side he has not had one season where he could augment the team and hasn't had developmental control to organically grow the team over the years as he may have liked. Also worth looking at Chelsea and Milan where injuries seem less prevalent and considering if we could do more to keep players fit.

With reference to solution 3. I think a few changes in the squad could give big benefits. Babel for someone who could play 90 minutes of intelligent football would be a huge bonus and players like Dossena are not even really operating as cover at the minute. If we could sell or swap a few players and bring on a couple of young players - Ayala and Kelly for example have looked good when given a chance - then the squad situation looks very different.

[kev776]

At the end of the day it doesnt matter if you love or hate the owners but facts are facts.

We are punching above our financial weight. Villa, Arsenal, City, Spures, Chelsea and the Mancs all have more financial clout than us.

We are living in a dream world if we believe we can sustain the old levels of "top four" unless we have a massive injection of cash.

There is no plan B when Gerrard, Carra and Mascher go, how long will Torres and Pepe stay around when those 3 move on or retire.

There is only so many rabbits Rafa can pull out of the bag. I fear we will have to sell to buy and then the owners will "cream off" a percentage of any incoming money to try and balance the books.

I suspect we are hurting so much because we expect so much, those days of even playing fields are gone.

[dww]

I don't think Villa or Spurs do have more financial weight than us. We have far bigger wage bills than either I believe.

[Vermilion]

I don't think Villa or Spurs do have more financial weight than us. We have far bigger wage bills than either I believe.

I'm not so sure any more, as we stand today i mean, they can even build a new stadium in London apparently, and in todays financial climate too.

[DannyMan2006]

With reference to solution 3. I think a few changes in the squad could give big benefits. Babel for someone who could play 90 minutes of intelligent football would be a huge bonus and players like Dossena are not even really operating as cover at the minute. If we could sell or swap a few players and bring on a couple of young players - Ayala and Kelly for example have looked good when given a chance - then the squad situation looks very different.

I don't agree with all of this, but I agree with the idea. Rafa needs to ship out players he doesn't rate and those of little use to the team.

Judging by the little impact certain players have had, then Rafa would be best of selling the lot and buying one good replacement for Torres/Gerrard.

We need to have a busy January if we are going to salvage our season, if it is still in a position to be saved at that stage of course.......

[dww]

I don't agree with all of this, but I agree with the idea. Rafa needs to ship out players he doesn't rate and those of little use to the team.

Judging by the little impact certain players have had, then Rafa would be best of selling the lot and buying one good replacement for Torres/Gerrard.

We need to have a busy January if we are going to salvage our season, if it is still in a position to be saved at that stage of course.......

I take that point - to be honest a direct replacement for Babel who did what he promises to do would make a huge difference to us right now. I'm not sure we will have to be hugely busy but one or two well judged changes could really help - with attacking backups obviously top of the list.

That said more or less as a perverse reaction to everyone now coming round to my position that Babel isn't that great I now want him to prove me wrong more than ever.

[DannyMan2006]

I take that point - to be honest a direct replacement for Babel who did what he promises to do would make a huge difference to us right now. I'm not sure we will have to be hugely busy but one or two well judged changes could really help - with attacking backups obviously top of the list.

That said more or less as a perverse reaction to everyone now coming round to my position that Babel isn't that great I now want him to prove me wrong more than ever.

I don't agree with the majority on Babel who say he lacks intelligence and is in some peoples views - ****. But I am beginning to wonder whether Babel is the type of personality to succeed as a squad player, which is clearly his present role under Rafa.

Some players need to be told they're the best in the world and need to play every game. I think Babel is one of those types of players. Hence if he does leave Liverpool he will probably look sensational for another team. It is very frustrating.

[kris90210]

I don't agree with the majority on Babel who say he lacks intelligence and is in some peoples views - ****. But I am beginning to wonder whether Babel is the type of personality to succeed as a squad player, which is clearly his present role under Rafa.

Some players need to be told they're the best in the world and need to play every game. I think Babel is one of those types of players. Hence if he does leave Liverpool he will probably look sensational for another team. It is very frustrating.

based on what though? He has started a few times after he's done well as a sub and has never justified keeping his place in the side. Rafa has shown loads of patience in him - far more than his performances have deserved.

He'll look sensational in another team? Highly doubt that. He'll be the same one moment of magic, 9 moments of lazy **** player that he is now. He doesn't have the mentality to be a good player at a top club. If he did then he would have put together at least a run or two of form in the past couple of years. Nothing from him.

He should have been sold in the summer. We have Riera and Benayoun to cover left wing. He should have been sold and the money put towards another striker. Ngog as backup to Torres. Stop and think about that for a second. How the **** has Rafa let that happen?

Frustrating times is right

[DannyMan2006]

based on what though? He has started a few times after he's done well as a sub and has never justified keeping his place in the side. Rafa has shown loads of patience in him - far more than his performances have deserved.

He'll look sensational in another team? Highly doubt that. He'll be the same one moment of magic, 9 moments of lazy **** player that he is now. He doesn't have the mentality to be a good player at a top club. If he did then he would have put together at least a run or two of form in the past couple of years. Nothing from him.

He should have been sold in the summer. We have Riera and Benayoun to cover left wing. He should have been sold and the money put towards another striker. Ngog as backup to Torres. Stop and think about that for a second. How the **** has Rafa let that happen?

Frustrating times is right

The general analysis is Rafa thought he had more money than he did.

On Babel, time will tell - as it always does.

[The_Positive_One]

How could you post this if your internet is blocked?

Oh, that's right, you can't read this

Lunchtime..... Wrote it on Word, then cut and pasted it at lunch....

[dww]

based on what though? He has started a few times after he's done well as a sub and has never justified keeping his place in the side. Rafa has shown loads of patience in him - far more than his performances have deserved.

He'll look sensational in another team? Highly doubt that. He'll be the same one moment of magic, 9 moments of lazy **** player that he is now. He doesn't have the mentality to be a good player at a top club. If he did then he would have put together at least a run or two of form in the past couple of years. Nothing from him.

He should have been sold in the summer. We have Riera and Benayoun to cover left wing. He should have been sold and the money put towards another striker. Ngog as backup to Torres. Stop and think about that for a second. How the **** has Rafa let that happen?

Frustrating times is right

I think the problem is that Babel is the precise type of player we need - a pacy utility forward. There is almost no way we could have sold Babel for a value that would have allowed us to replace him. While I'm not a huge Babel fan if he was showing willing to put in the effort as by all accounts he was in training then I think it may have been a reasonable, and possibly necessary, gamble to keep him.

If Babel lived up to his billing I think we have a pretty balanced squad - possibly needing a utility defender and an extra CM to complete it (obviously, and to me slightly sadly, selling Dossena would be part of anyones dream set of January moves at this stage).

It is worth noting that Rafa said he wanted 4 players in and only got three. Obviously we are only able to speculate what sort of player the 4th would have been.