Peter Crouch

[Fan65]

Crouch was most certainly good enough to play for us and his goalscoring record for us backs that up.

But to start ahead of Torres?

Rafa remember only plays with one up front.

Crouch wanted to start more games, Rafa respected his wishes and let him go.

No animosity, end of.

[Shaggy]

But to start ahead of Torres?

Rafa remember only plays with one up front.

Crouch wanted to start more games, Rafa respected his wishes and let him go.

No animosity, end of.

I know all that, and clearly I didn't mean he should've started ahead of Torres. If Torres is the yardstick for all strikers then no centre-forward in the world is good enough for us.

Totally agreed though, no animosity - he had perfectly good reasons to go and he did it with a heavy heart. He should still be here really.

[Exiled_red]

Crouch was most certainly good enough to play for us and his goalscoring record for us backs that up.

[Fan65]

I know all that, and clearly I didn't mean he should've started ahead of Torres. If Torres is the yardstick for all strikers then no centre-forward in the world is good enough for us.

Totally agreed though, no animosity - he had perfectly good reasons to go and he did it with a heavy heart. He should still be here really.

And probably would have earned a place in the fans hearts forever as a true Liverpool player, but that's life I suppose if's, but's & maybe's.

[DannyMan2006]

He wasn't good enough for Liverpool. I wish he was still here, but that is more down to who we actually replaced him with in the squad.

In the past weeks I've wished that Baros, Ciise, Pongolle, Bellamy and even Kewell were still here. But Rafa was right to ship out the lot.

On another note I would have liked Rafa to have tried Crouch up top with Torres as I think they would have done well, but as a replacement for Torres, Crouch does not fit the bill as he isn't mobile enough.

sorry but thats garbage...crouch is a damn site better than the rubbish rafa has signed other than Torres

Not good enough for a club that's never won the league and aside from one or two seasons have come nowhere near close to winning it?
Like what exactly do people mean when they say not good enough for Liverpool or not Liverpool standard?? whatever way you want to put it.

And replace them with Ngog and Voronin?

Crouch was most certainly good enough to play for us and his goalscoring record for us backs that up.

Crouch was not good enough for us IMO. Certainly not good enough to be first choice. He'd be decent as an option of the bench but that's it.

His goal scoring record for us was not that great either Shaggy, so I don't know what stats or what games you remember. We all know he couldn't hit a bar door when he first came and though I say I would like him coming of the bench iirc when he did come of the bench for us he hardly ever scored - if at all.

Mark I see you kind of point out that Crouch should be good enough for us because we are not such a great team. Well we wouldn't be if Crouch was starting for us would we?

People, I'm not saying Crouch is a bad player, just that he is not a top class player, which Liverpool should be looking to recruit.

John Arne Riise is better than Andreas Dossena but I don't see people saying we should have kept Riise. Just because the replacements for Crouch have not been up to standard it does not make him a world beater.

Anyhow, as people have pointed out - Crouch wanted first team football. It was not Rafa who wanted him out, quite the opposite in fact.

[Shaggy]

Crouch was not good enough for us IMO. Certainly not good enough to be first choice. He'd be decent as an option of the bench but that's it.

His goal scoring record for us was not that great either Shaggy, so I don't know what stats or what games you remember. We all know he couldn't hit a bar door when he first came and though I say I would like him coming of the bench iirc when he did come of the bench for us he hardly ever scored - if at all.

Mark I see you kind of point out that Crouch should be good enough for us because we are not such a great team. Well we wouldn't be if Crouch was starting for us would we?

People, I'm not saying Crouch is a bad player, just that he is not a top class player, which Liverpool should be looking to recruit.

John Arne Riise is better than Andreas Dossena but I don't see people saying we should have kept Riise. Just because the replacements for Crouch have not been up to standard it does not make him a world beater.

Anyhow, as people have pointed out - Crouch wanted first team football. It was not Rafa who wanted him out, quite the opposite in fact.

So you choose to isolate 19 games to make your point?

Tell you what, I'll isolate the other 71.

In the league he made 44 starts for us, scoring 20 goals. That of course is forgetting his opening barren spell, so in total it was 20 in 55. Just shy of 1 in 2 for someone who started only sporadically and was nearly always taken off.

In the CL he scored 11 goals from 13 starts. He failed to score in his first 8, but we're forgetting those of course, making it in total 11 in 21 appearances.

We can all isolate figures to make our argument look stronger.

Also, he was substituted in the vast majority of those starts. His goals-to-minutes ratio for LFC was very impressive.

So Crouch isn't top class - do you seriously believe we can carry over 20 top class players in the squad? Not everyone has to be 'top class' - they just have to be able to do their job and whenever called upon to do his, Crouch invariably obliged. He was certainly good enough to be in our squad, and that blagger Mr Capello seems to think he's good enough for his squad too.

[Lee]

So you choose to isolate 19 games to make your point?

Tell you what, I'll isolate the other 71.

In the league he made 44 starts for us, scoring 20 goals. That of course is forgetting his opening barren spell, so in total it was 20 in 55. Just shy of 1 in 2 for someone who started only sporadically and was nearly always taken off.

In the CL he scored 11 goals from 13 starts. He failed to score in his first 8, but we're forgetting those of course, making it in total 11 in 21 appearances.

We can all isolate figures to make our argument look stronger.

Also, he was substituted in the vast majority of those starts. His goals-to-minutes ratio for LFC was very impressive.

So Crouch isn't top class - do you seriously believe we can carry over 20 top class players in the squad? Not everyone has to be 'top class' - they just have to be able to do their job and whenever called upon to do his, Crouch invariably obliged. He was certainly good enough to be in our squad, and that blagger Mr Capello seems to think he's good enough for his squad too.

I've tried to make this point many a time. Crouch is / was more than good enough for us. Shame that he's now third choice at Spurs when he would be second choice for us now, but the lad wasn't to know.

None of this 'Crouchy is not good enough' or 'We should have kept him' bollocks. First of all - no one is saying that he should play over Torres, but - as he's proved - he is superb cover. And he wanted to leave to get more minutes - ****s me off when people say we should've kept him and Sami - we had no choice in it.

[Shaggy]

Also winning goals against Man United, Chelsea, and hat-tricks against Arsenal and in the Champions League ain't bad for someone who wasn't good enough.

How we could do with the option of Crouch now...

[Shaggy]

I've tried to make this point many a time. Crouch is / was more than good enough for us. Shame that he's now third choice at Spurs when he would be second choice for us now, but the lad wasn't to know.

None of this 'Crouchy is not good enough' or 'We should have kept him' bollocks. First of all - no one is saying that he should play over Torres, but - as he's proved - he is superb cover. And he wanted to leave to get more minutes - ****s me off when people say we should've kept him and Sami - we had no choice in it.

[DannyMan2006]

So you choose to isolate 19 games to make your point?

Tell you what, I'll isolate the other 71.

In the league he made 36 starts for us, scoring 20 goals. That of course is forgetting his first 19 games, so in total it was 20 in 55. Just shy of 1 in 2 for someone who started only sporadically and was nearly always taken off.

In the CL he scored 11 goals from 21 starts. Bear in mind in those CL figures he failed to score in his first 8, making it 11 in 13 subsequent appearances. We can all isolate figures to make our argument look stronger.

Also, he was substituted in the vast majority of those starts. His goals-to-minutes ratio for LFC was very impressive.

So Crouch isn't top class - do you seriously believe we can carry over 20 top class players in the squad? Not everyone has to be 'top class' - they just have to be able to do their job and whenever called upon to do his, Crouch invariably obliged. He was certainly good enough to be in our squad, and that blagger Mr Capello seems to think he's good enough for his squad too.

I wasn't making my point from just the start, I was saying this is something we all know. 20 in 55 is not just shy of 1 in 2, it is closer to 1 in 3, but your point stands. 11 in 13 in the CL is also impressive, again a bad start but your point still stands. And there is no one who can turn round and say it was easy for Crouch after his first season. He went from a manager standing totally behind him to one who did not truly believe in him if we're being honest.

As I said, I'm not saying Crouch is a bad player. He's far better than many other strikers Liverpool have had over the years. Plus he was a top class bloke and the way he still speaks about us proves that.

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is that Crouch is not good enough to start for a top class team on a weekly basis. Nor is he the kind of player I would want leading the line in a 4231. He's decent in a 442 with a goal poacher, I would have liked Rafa to have started him with Torres to see if they hit it off as we are not made of money.

But a top club should have top class forwards. And Crouch is not one of them.

[Bender]

i'd be more than happy if we re-signed crouch

[Shaggy]

But everyone is entitled to their own opinion and mine is that Crouch is not good enough to start for a top class team on a weekly basis. .

No-one is saying he should've!

[DannyMan2006]

I've tried to make this point many a time. Crouch is / was more than good enough for us. Shame that he's now third choice at Spurs when he would be second choice for us now, but the lad wasn't to know.

None of this 'Crouchy is not good enough' or 'We should have kept him' bollocks. First of all - no one is saying that he should play over Torres, but - as he's proved - he is superb cover. And he wanted to leave to get more minutes - ****s me off when people say we should've kept him and Sami - we had no choice in it.

He's superb cover on the face of it in some people's minds. But Crouch performs best when a manager is totally commited to him. He isn't a player who can come in and out and he is not a player who performs well coming of the bench.

Shaggy harps on about his goals per minute ratio when starting games but I'd love to see the records for when he comes of the bench. I that last season for us he came of the bench on numerous occasion and iirc he never scored once, nor provided any assists that I can remember off - though I could be wrong with the assists bit.

[Shaggy]

But cover doesn't mean "to be used as a substitute", it means to step in when others are injured. And his record when starting games is tremendous, whether it's Liverpool, Spurs or England. Wherever he goes, whenever he starts, he scores goals. Fact.

[DannyMan2006]

No-one is saying he should've!

And I wasn't saying it wouldn't be great to have him and many other decent players in reserve. Oh for an ideal world!

Liverpool need three strikers at least. One is Torres - guaranteed starter. Another is N'Gog - youngster learning the trade. And the last should be a player who can play with Torres when needed and one who can replace him.

IMO to Keep the system working we need a quick mobile forward as second choice. Not Crouch IMO.