Where the transfer policy has completely failed

[Charly]

Its all very well Rafa telling us how he made a profit on Crouch, Bellamy, Momo, Alonso, Arbeloa etc.

Unfortunately, a transfer profit lines the Yanks profits, and achieves precisely zilch.

What Rafa didnt do with any of these players was sign a replacement of equal or better stature.

CAn you imagine how much better the team would be if he had held onto those players (and I realise most wanted to leave)?

I guess if we finish top 4, then we can forgive Rafa a bad season. I will reserve judgement on him until June. But at the same time, we can all see the team has moved backwards.

Rafa was very critical of Houlliers team, but if Rafa left, what would the next manager be thinking, the same thing I bet.

Rafa really needs Aquilani to be the second coming. Doesnt seem to want to play him at the moment though, no matter who else get injured.

Apparently Aurelio is our best hope for scoring late on (God ****ing help us.... Fowler?)

[BobTheCharmer]

Its all very well Rafa telling us how he made a profit on Crouch, Bellamy, Momo, Alonso, Arbeloa etc.


What Rafa didnt do with any of these players was sign a replacement of equal or better stature.

I think you're wrong in a very very big way in respect of Arbeloa.....step forward Glen ****ing Johnson.

[Red_Polo]

Can't agree with much of that.

I'm pretty glad Bellamy was replaced by Torres. Alonso wanted out and it's too early to say whether Aquilani fits the bill. That leaves Sissoko, Crouch, and Arbeloa, the latter two of which wanted to leave and none of which would get into our starting XI when everyone's fit. So the first team would not be better with them here. Obviously the squad would be, but then our first team wouldn't be as strong without the money we got by selling them, would it? We can't have it both ways.

As for comparing our current squad with the one Rafa inherited, I think it's laughable to equate them. There's a huge difference in squad value thanks to Torres, Mascherano and Reina alone.

[little dave hedgehog]

can we all just take a moment to remember that we sold bellamy because he hit john arne riise in the balls with a 3 wood? you don't employ such cunts. not if discipline is at all important to you.

[Exiled_red]

I think that we did replace most of those with better players

Bellamy - Torres
Sissoko - Lucas
Arbeloa - Johnson

Alonso's replacement Aquilani hasn't played yet so we can't pass judgement and I'll agree we never really replaced Crouch I guess Ngog could be considered his replacement, but he wasn't a ready made replacement.

I must confess that I'm baffelled by the many recent claims that we should have hung on to Bellamy, he was average at best for us and although he's had a decent spell recently, his average level of performance doesn't suggest to me that we've lost much.

If you blame Rafa for us moving backwards this year then you have to credit him with what he achieved last year. Personally I think we overachieved last year and are underachieveing this year.

The problem with our squad is that it didn't get the level of investment it needed to progress, our shortage of investment from the owners, has caused us to fall behind and the longer we are lacking that investment the further behind we'll fall, and the harder it will be to catch up

[Charly]

Johnson has been injured most of the season, so I dont see his absense being an improvement on Arbeloa, who was a much better defender.

I didnt realise Bellamy was replaced by Torres, so I will conceed that item, but not the point.

Momo was far more effecetive than Lucas, in that he could tackle (and nothing else), which is one more attribute than Lucas posesses.

[Reece]

Johnson has been injured most of the season.

He's played 14 games so far, hardly "most of the season" is it.

[Reece]

And I'd rather have the Lucas we currently have than the Sissoko that left us.

[Charly]

As for comparing our current squad with the one Rafa inherited, I think it's laughable to equate them. There's a huge difference in squad value thanks to Torres, Mascherano and Reina alone.

Im not going to debate the value with you, just the ability on the pitch.

Hamman, Gerrard Hyppia Henchoz Carra Owen v Monster GErrard Agger Skrtyl Carra and Torres.

Not a great deal of difference there.

Ill grant you Benayoun and Aquilani to come in, but its not a chasm, as Houlliers defence was better. Swings and roundabouts.

Reina is a massive find.

Beyind the 1st eleven, we are still very poor.

[Red_Polo]

He's played 14 games so far, hardly "most of the season" is it.

...and even if he had, I fail to see how that is a failure of transfer policy.

[Exiled_red]

Johnson has been injured most of the season, so I dont see his absense being an improvement on Arbeloa, who was a much better defender.

I didnt realise Bellamy was replaced by Torres, so I will conceed that item, but not the point.

Momo was far more effecetive than Lucas, in that he could tackle (and nothing else), which is one more attribute than Lucas posesses.

In his performances this season Johnson has probably been our best player, everyone seems to slate Johnson for his defending but I can't recall him being out of position costing us a goal yet.

Sissoko, could win the ball back, but he couldn't retain possession, Lucas is better on the ball than Sissoko, I'd rather have Lucas than Sissoko, also a partnership of Mascherano and Sissoko, would be more negative than the Mascherano and Lucas partnership.

[BigChief]

And I'd rather have the Lucas we currently have than the Sissoko that left us.

I have to grudgingly agree with this. But I can't wait for the day Lucas' name is on the bench or not in the squad at all!

[Charly]

...and even if he had, I fail to see how that is a failure of transfer policy.

Well I cite being out of the title race by November after being labeled as favoutites as evidence.

[andrewces38]

Its all very well Rafa telling us how he made a profit on Crouch, Bellamy, Momo, Alonso, Arbeloa etc.

Unfortunately, a transfer profit lines the Yanks profits, and achieves precisely zilch.

What Rafa didnt do with any of these players was sign a replacement of equal or better stature.

CAn you imagine how much better the team would be if he had held onto those players (and I realise most wanted to leave)?

I guess if we finish top 4, then we can forgive Rafa a bad season. I will reserve judgement on him until June. But at the same time, we can all see the team has moved backwards.

Rafa was very critical of Houlliers team, but if Rafa left, what would the next manager be thinking, the same thing I bet.

Rafa really needs Aquilani to be the second coming. Doesnt seem to want to play him at the moment though, no matter who else get injured.

Apparently Aurelio is our best hope for scoring late on (God ****ing help us.... Fowler?)

Well suck me sideways......................I often tune into here on a Saturday night and look to find if anyone has posted while drinking and what do I find?.................hey presto !!..........someone drinking while typing!!!not to mention The biggest pile of bollocks I have read in a long time ,

As stated earlier Arbeloa=Johnson?.............Bellamy=Torres....... .......Momo=masher..............at this rate Alonso = Aqua we wait


**** sake me old mucker how can you come up with such a pile of possam piss and expect to get away with it?................seriously though...............do you believe you are talking sense?

[Red_Polo]

Im not going to debate the value with you, just the ability on the pitch.

Hamman, Gerrard Hyppia Henchoz Carra Owen v Monster GErrard Agger Skrtyl Carra and Torres.

Not a great deal of difference there.

Ill grant you Benayoun and Aquilani to come in, but its not a chasm, as Houlliers defence was better. Swings and roundabouts.

Reina is a massive find.

Beyind the 1st eleven, we are still very poor.

The whole of the last 18 months under Houllier we leaked goal because between Hamann, Hyypia and Henchoz there was absolutely no pace and we either had to defend deep or leave them exposed. Hyypia is the only one of those not replaced by someone of as high quality, as good a player as Agger may be. Mascherano now is about as good as Hamann was when Rafa took over IMO. Carra now is a better player than Henchoz was then, although granted he is a having a poor season. We have had some great defensive records under Rafa and all with a healthier balance in attack than under Houllier, so I can't really agree. It seems to me you have forgotten just how **** we were at the end of Houllier's reign, and are comparing apples with oranges by equating our current player form with the potential of the players Rafa inherited.

Beyond the first eleven we are worse off than we have been in previous seasons under Rafa IMO, but that's because we've had underinvestment of late and Rafa has prioritised the first XI over the squad. As a result injuries have hit us harder and people will moan he hasn't bought us enough depth. Still, when everyone was fit a couple of seasons back they moaned we bought too many sub-standard players instead of just one or two top notch ones. We can't do it all, we don't have the resources.

Rafa's playing the hand he's dealt and he's played it fairly well I'd say. We've just hit a rough patch at the same time as having some bad luck with injuries and beach balls, all off the back of a season that's raised expectations to the highest I can remember them being in quite some time.

Well I cite being out of the title race by November after being labeled as favoutites as evidence.

I can appreciate that this post of yours was intended to skirt around the fact that you're wrong about Johnson, but if you think title races are decided on the previous summer's transfer policy alone, you'd better think again, Mojambo.

Were we favourites then? How did that compare to the odds Houllier had on leading us to number 19 just before he was sacked?