We're Out - Whinge Here

[Guest]

i dont read the papers...
if u take hiddinks form from when he actually took over chelsea and averaged that over the season he would've won the league.
Yes, the value of the club, until this season the value of this squad was the 3rd most expensive

You read too many rcdnw posts

Rafa can indeed 'do no wrong' simply because he is the best manager we could have.

Tomorrow it will be Hiddink, then maybe Cruyff, possibly Rikjaard, Mourihno, Guardiola .... No manager will win the hearts of 100% of the fans but what really counts is the majority out there who are really objective and sees what Rafa is doing. He is building a dynasty and we will be the best team in England again, this is just a matter of time.

He's got 5 years, so if I was you I'd try to see the positives rather than the negatives.

And again, he didn't spend that much money. £20m on average every season during his tenure (and maybe less considering he didn't spend a ****ing penny this season NET).

[BFG]

Rafa can indeed 'do no wrong' simply because he is the best manager we could have.

Tomorrow it will be Hiddink, then maybe Cruyff, possibly Rikjaard, Mourihno, Guardiola .... No manager will win the hearts of 100% of the fans but what really counts is the majority out there who are really objective and sees what Rafa is doing. He is building a dynasty and we will be the best team in England again, this is just a matter of time.

He's got 5 years, so if I was you I'd try to see the positives rather than the negatives.

And again, he didn't spend that much money. £20m on average every season during his tenure (and maybe less considering he didn't spend a ****ing penny this season NET).

You talk sense mate. It's like you've been here for years.

[wildman]

We'll finish well above Spurs, Villa and City. Chill out.

we wont do if we lose many more, spurs and city certainly have much stronger squads than us and they both look up for it this year, never be complacent!

I still think the owners are more to blame than Rafa, yes he's made sum cock ups but he is working on a shoe string budget and he has had a fair amount of money to spend but he also had a new squad to build when he came here andif he had been given more money at the time he could of signed his real targets instead of taking risks and maybe things would be better than they are now?

Our problem though is that we are falling down the pecking order in my eyes, I'm not sure were spurs are gettign all their cash from but theyve spent a ****in fortune over the last few years (and at sum point , possibly this season, thsi is gonna pay off for them) and no dount will continue to do so, as will City, we are not able to compete. Bring in all the sponsorship money you want but it'll never enable us to compete with our rivals whilst they can free spend.

The signs are that we are in deep trouble (and there are 2 people who are wholly accountable). The teams/squad is not good enough which |I feel is mainly down to lack of investment rather than a poor choice of pllayers (although Rafa has made some strange siginings) |Rafa does have questions that he needs to answer, the Aquilani situation is unacceptable now, signed for 5 years or not and why cant he just go for it sometimes instead of sitting back and letting the other teams back in but the biggest problem is our american friends and their inability to progress this club forward sufficiently. They do deserve some praise for improving things commercially but we were seriously lagging behind in that dept anyway so they probably just bought us up to speed to where we should be but the fact they cant/wont fund anyting themselves is not good.

They've really got to go guys I dread to think where we're goin to be should they be in charge in say another 3 years.

[cream]

Can't believe people going on about the Aquilani substitution, like that had anything to do with us being dumped embarrassingly out of the Champs league.

[Guest]

we wont do if we lose many more, spurs and city certainly have much stronger squads than us and they both look up for it this year, never be complacent!

It's not complacent to think we have got a better squad than theirs. In any case, we cannot rectify the situation just now as we have to wait for the transfer window in January.

[ronniedrew]

Can't believe people going on about the Aquilani substitution, like that had anything to do with us being dumped embarrassingly out of the Champs league.

i think the problem is that he wasnt giving game time , and how will he get match fit without game time?

[bradsdad]

i posted at the start of the season are we weaker than last year and the general opinion was that we were weaker...and now it is being proved...i cant think of one team that only has one foreward...you cant surely expect to win anything with only torres and a 19 year old....crouch gone bellamy gone keane gone christ we could have even had owen for nothing...i love that we got johnson but arbeloa was ok and we could have spent a bit on a half decent foreward...so whos fault is all that the dickhead yanks or rafa???...i dont really know anymore i think i have also lost the plot here

[Guest]

i think the problem is that he wasnt giving game time , and how will he get match fit without game time?

How do you know he won't be started in any of the forthcoming matches? It's all about giving him 'more time' to build his strength (he does this in training you know - not just matches) whilst still 'managing' the team sufficiently so that we can still have a platform to win games.

You all play FM 2010 too much, you think it's easy.

[ronanm]

Yes, overachieved.

Arsenal, and Man Utd already had a decade of building on us and Chelsea and Utd have had pools of cash to dip into whenever an apparent weakness appears in their squads. Contrary to what some people think we have no devine right to win anything and the fact that we're outraged at going out of the Champions League in the group stages proves that we've made huge progress. Look back a few years and it felt like a huge achievement just to be in the group stages and that was when very average Newcastle sides were competing with us for a group place.

We've won a European Cup, been to another final, won an FA Cup and been painfully close to winning the league when it was at it's strongest perhaps in history and although we're all hurt at recent results the squad is many fold better than it was when Rafa came. For the relatively little we've spent that's a good performance from where I'm sitting.

It's not solely the disappointment of going out of the Champions League in the group stage (although how we couldn't get out of a group with the mighty Fiorentina and Lyon is beyond me). It's the diastrous form, the lack of a squad, the treatment of some players, the absence of a trophy for quite a while, the persistence with substandard players, the wholesale buying and selling of players in the apparent hope that one will work out, the playing style, the lack of technical ability, the paucity of decent youth getting into the team (Insua is an exception but the guy is clearly nowhere near ready) that bothers me really. Where is the leadership? The PL wasn't "nearly the strongest in it's history" last year - Arsenal barely got going, Chelsea only started to get going in about Feb owing to a "great" manager not working out. Rubbish. We blew it ourselves. This is all underachievement in my eyes. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.

[Guest]

i posted at the start of the season are we weaker than last year and the general opinion was that we were weaker...and now it is being proved...i cant think of one team that only has one foreward...you cant surely expect to win anything with only torres and a 19 year old....crouch gone bellamy gone keane gone christ we could have even had owen for nothing...i love that we got johnson but arbeloa was ok and we could have spent a bit on a half decent foreward...so whos fault is all that the dickhead yanks or rafa???...i dont really know anymore i think i have also lost the plot here

Keane was absolute pants for us and yet there are still people who are spilling out the same old milk. Owen? He's doing great at Man. Utd is it, he's got a better scoring record than Ngog.

People were crying for a better attacking option from the right, now we've got Johnson, Arbeloa is sorely missed. **** me, this is surreal.

No offence mate.

[cream]

i think the problem is that he wasnt giving game time , and how will he get match fit without game time?

Maybe it wasn't the right game to give him game time? I don't know, a must win game, the inability to defend a lead and a knack for conceding late goals surely means we needed to be cautious? You're right, some of the fans on here know better, lets just throw Aquilani on, doesn't matter if we win or lose as long as Aquilani gets game time.

[bradsdad]

Keane was absolute pants for us and yet there are still people who are spilling out the same old milk. Owen? He's doing great at Man. Utd is it, he's got a better scoring record than Ngog.

People were crying for a better attacking option from the right, now we've got Johnson, Arbeloa is sorely missed. **** me, this is surreal.

No offence mate.

no offence taken mate and i wasnt suggesting that kean or crouch or bellamy or owen was a perfect solution but i was trying to point out that to go into a season with one foreward and a 19 year old is a big mistake can you name me one other reasonable team in the whole of the prem who has done that

[Guest]

no offence taken mate and i wasnt suggesting that kean or crouch or bellamy or owen was a perfect solution but i was trying to point out that to go into a season with one foreward and a 19 year old is a big mistake can you name me one other reasonable team in the whole of the prem who has done that

I'm certain Rafa had plans to rectify that but he wasn't allowed to do it in the end because of money restrictions. He had to prioritise and with the fact that both Arbeloa and Alonso were pushing for moves, he had to replace them, which ultimately used the money he would have had (he didn't have any money in the end as his NET spend totalled 0). My point is that he could have bought players which would have 'added' to the squad, whilst still net spending zero, if Alonso and Arbeloa didn't push for moves.

As it was, we had two gaps to fill, and both of them were not cheap. That was the priority, and the gamble was to bank on Voronin and Babel to deliver, but none did.

[cream]

no offence taken mate and i wasnt suggesting that kean or crouch or bellamy or owen was a perfect solution but i was trying to point out that to go into a season with one foreward and a 19 year old is a big mistake can you name me one other reasonable team in the whole of the prem who has done that

Pretty sure there were plans for another striker, as I recall money was taken away from Rafa around the time of the refinancing. Maybe if Rafa knew what money he had to play with, he could've planned differently. In any case, I don't the problems are simply down to the striker options, the whole team has been playing **** and making silly mistakes when playing well/winning.

[reds123]

It's not solely the disappointment of going out of the Champions League in the group stage (although how we couldn't get out of a group with the mighty Fiorentina and Lyon is beyond me). It's the diastrous form, the lack of a squad, the treatment of some players, the absence of a trophy for quite a while, the persistence with substandard players, the wholesale buying and selling of players in the apparent hope that one will work out, the playing style, the lack of technical ability, the paucity of decent youth getting into the team (Insua is an exception but the guy is clearly nowhere near ready) that bothers me really. Where is the leadership? The PL wasn't "nearly the strongest in it's history" last year - Arsenal barely got going, Chelsea only started to get going in about Feb owing to a "great" manager not working out. Rubbish. We blew it ourselves. This is all underachievement in my eyes. If you want to believe otherwise that's up to you.

you' re right and your arguments are valid! Rafa's tacticts are great and his foresight for the club to go upwards seems to be right but somtimes he makes immature mistakes! What about the inability to bring a striker who can compliment Torres and can replace him easily? And the lack of Babel's first team opportunities? What if Babel was under the care Of Wenger? And what about the 7 million wasted on Dossena? And then he complains that he has no money...

Rafa is great but he makes silly mistakes! And it seems that the great Liverpool side he is building is being done too slowly. Remember that Gerrard will be 30 years next year!