A question for us...

[reds123]

Basically it's saying "if you take the best players out of team they become worse!". Obvious and pointless.

No it's not pointless. Ask Gerrard! (what he said last Thursday was something simlilar to what we are discussing here) Ask Torres!

Players of their calibre should win the league but they ae surrounded with average players exc. 2 or 3 good ones.

Pointless are the results we achieve when Torres and Gerrard don't play.

While Man.Utd even though with 5 injured players still won 4-0 at West Ham.

It's painful, isn't it?

[Darkon]

I think if you took Gerrard, Torres, Agger, Mascherano and Reina out of our team we'd then definitely be worse. Oh, and perhaps Johnson too.

Our squad is not as bad as people are making out. We've just suffered from a severe loss of momentum, confidence and form, alongside a succession of unfortunate injury problems and some occasionally puzzling managerial decisions, which have all served to compound and exaggerate a couple of major personnel deficiencies, no more than that.

The table at the moment is not lying. No, we're not better than Spurs and Villa. We have the potential to be though I think, even within the current squad (as they showed last season), but we're not playing anywhere near as close to our potential as they are. I don't think we could have been any more ****e than we have been, most of it without Torres and/or Gerrard, yet we're more or less within one win of them both, that tells its own tale imo.

that's half our first team lineup there - sure we would be avg. if we took them out.

If you took out 6 of spurs players or villas players they would be not better than just above relegation.

It's a very pointless thread this. If you take out the six strongest players from a team then off course they would be worse.

[SimonNo7]

that's half our first team lineup there - sure we would be avg. if we took them out.

If you took out 6 of spurs players or villas players they would be not better than just above relegation.

It's a very pointless thread this. If you take out the six strongest players from a team then off course they would be worse.

This thread isn't pointless and it has gone off course.

This post started talking about how much better we are with Torres and then the next post suggested without Gerrard and Torres we would finish around 8-10.

Further on someone who didn't agree with this post twisted it to talk about half a team missing, that wasn't what this post was about.

Of course any team would be poor without half their team but getting back to the original post all the teams above us would cope better than us with the loss of their two best players because they have better squads than us but more importantly they play as a team which is the thing that we lack most, even more than losing Gerrard and/or Torres.

[Guest]

Torres hasn't played for 1 1/2 months and we're still 3 points off Spurs who are playing full tilt. Says it all really.

When we're at our best we'll easily get back to third.

[Marky]

Seriously do you think that without Torres, we are better than Spurs and Aston Villa?

It's painful considering what position we were last year, but from what we are watching this year, it seems that they are better organised, more motivated and talent wise we are level imo

Whrn torres plays, then it's a different story!!!

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Aurelio, Benayoun, Mascherano and Kuyt(on his day) are very good players so it's bull**** to say our team is all about Gerrard and Torres.

Hopefully the Italian will also be added to that list(if we ever see him play).

[Nick77]

Seriously do you think that without Torres, we are better than Spurs and Aston Villa?

Well the Spurs squad cost 60 million pounds more than ours & Villa's only cost 10 million less than ours so u if u take Torres out of the equation then our squad cost 60 million less than Spurs' & 10 million less than Villa's.

[reds123]

Considering what were our expectations 2 months ago (that we will be challenging for the league) (i hope so), this thread is valid.

Without Torres vs B'burn for instance our attack was ****e. Kuyt plays all the time but he is better as a battling midfielder than as a striker!

Without Torres we look average! I did not mention half the squad ! vs b'burn only Torres and Aquilani were missing!

If we're happy being sarcastic and with the likes of Spurs and Villa above us and being only 2 points above B'gham... then, we have lowered our standards.

[Vermilion]

It's just this season, we've been without Torres and Gerrard before and managed ok, that's not the reason behind such a dire run of results, it's a general loss of form, and players missing on top of Gerrard and Torres that's hurt us, those two alone being out wouldn't cause us to implode as we have this term imo.

[reds123]

Reina, Johnson, Carragher, Agger, Aurelio, Benayoun, Mascherano and Kuyt(on his day) are very good players so it's bull**** to say our team is all about Gerrard and Torres.

Hopefully the Italian will also be added to that list(if we ever see him play).

This bull**** you're talking about means:

being out from the Champions League because Torres and Gerrard did not play vs Lyon.

being out of the title race in November because Torres and Gerrard were injured for 6 weeks. (sorry we beat manure with Torres making the difference btw. good and exceptional cause Kuyt had a better chance vs Van der saar)

Talk about burying the heads in the sand.

[Guest]

This bull**** you're talking about means:

being out from the Champions League because Torres and Gerrard did not play vs Lyon.

being out of the title race in November because Torres and Gerrard were injured for 6 weeks. (sorry we beat manure with Torres making the difference btw. good and exceptional cause Kuyt had a better chance vs Van der saar)

Talk about burying the heads in the sand.

Any team would be at a loss without those two players. We had other injuries too which have contributed to our poor showing. We've suffered down to the bare bones. Have a look at that list.

Riera
Aurelio
Agger
Skrtel
Johnson
El Zhar
Torres
Gerrard
Benayoun

We've had to play Kelly and Ayala in central defence together, both rookies who never played a single game for the first team before.

It's not just about missing Gerrard and Torres. We did well without them last season.

[red g]

villa and spurs probably have more depth in there squad so injuries dont effect them as much.

We have Torres and Gerrard who are world class so we will miss them more. Spurs and Villa have a collection of good quality players throughout there squad but no stand out players, hence why they are a top 6 side and we are a top 4.

[Guest]

villa and spurs probably have more depth in there squad so injuries dont effect them as much.

Don't think you're right there mate. We have a better squad. Despite all our problems we are still doing well comparatively. Imagine us at our best, we'd trounce those teams.

[reds123]

What I worry about is that as I said before manure were missing 5 important palyers last saturday and still got the result.

[red g]

What I worry about is that as I said before manure were missing 5 important palyers last saturday and still got the result.

against the poorest team in the premiership at the moment. they were woeful saturday also without there only attacking player of quality you dont need a good defence if the opposition dont attack!!

[red g]

Don't think you're right there mate. We have a better squad. Despite all our problems we are still doing well comparatively. Imagine us at our best, we'd trounce those teams.

at our best we would easily beat those teams that wasnt the question, our first 11 is as good as anyones in the league.

but squad I dont think we do.

We dont have decent cover for Torres, Johnson, Aqulliani or Riera.