Injuries? Bollocks

[BobTheCharmer]

We've had a **** run with injuries, most of us will agree. Its ****ed our season without doubt.

But speaking to an Arsenal mate of mine recently and he was like, we've had just as many if not more players missing and still play good football. Point taken on board.

Now Man U have up to 15 players out either through choice or actual injuries and they beat a decent team away from home 3-1 in europe on the back of a 4-0 win at west ham all this without at least 4 of their first choice back 4! They had Fletcher and Carrick at centre back ffs. I hate them with every breathe in my body, I've argued for years that fergie is a cunt and they get all the luck etc, yet credit where credit is due. Fergie gets more out of his players than Rafa does his. On paper there's not a lot between the teams. There's not many I'd want of their lot. But this is where for me a manager earns his money. Get the most out of whats at your disposal. We'd all like more money and better players but its rare you ever have that option available to you.

Or am I being unfair. Was last season and the CL run Rafa doing exactly that? Getting the upmost from the players he had? Were we overperforming?

Either way its ****ing depressing. I can see Utd winning the title and the CL. All this without Ronaldo and to a lesser extent Tevez. This could turn out to be the worst season for footballing reasons ever, utd beat our record, win another euro and we borefest and slug our way to 4th or 5th place.

[Chrono]

We've had a **** run with injuries, most of us will agree. Its ****ed our season without doubt.

But speaking to an Arsenal mate of mine recently and he was like, we've had just as many if not more players missing and still play good football. Point taken on board.

Now Man U have up to 15 players out either through choice or actual injuries and they beat a decent team away from home 3-1 in europe on the back of a 4-0 win at west ham all this without at least 4 of their first choice back 4! They had Fletcher and Carrick at centre back ffs. I hate them with every breathe in my body, I've argued for years that fergie is a cunt and they get all the luck etc, yet credit where credit is due. Fergie gets more out of his players than Rafa does his. On paper there's not a lot between the teams. There's not many I'd want of their lot. But this is where for me a manager earns his money. Get the most out of whats at your disposal. We'd all like more money and better players but its rare you ever have that option available to you.

Or am I being unfair. Was last season and the CL run Rafa doing exactly that? Getting the upmost from the players he had? Were we overperforming?

Either way its ****ing depressing. I can see Utd winning the title and the CL. All this without Ronaldo and to a lesser extent Tevez. This could turn out to be the worst season for footballing reasons ever, utd beat our record, win another euro and we borefest and slug our way to 4th or 5th place.

You are being completely fair and Rafa does not get anywhere near enough out of the squad of players we have. Anyone that doesn't believe he plays a large part for our recent results has got their head in the sand.

[Baracus]

How can Rafael justify using the big list of injury problems we had? When Utd go and do that to a Champions league opposition.

[herpritmann]

I have said it all along rafa is not the manager to take us forward as he can't judge player when buying and he is not act minded enough. Look at utd or arsenal they are always looking to act even upto the 90th min. We are Fu@ked now with him as it will cost a arm and leg to get rid thanks to all those lfc supports with their "in rafa we trust" crap...

[FatTony]

Fair point, I'd take very few of their team over ours individually, but Fergie does get so much more out of them. He's a quality manager.

[Vermilion]

I have said it all along rafa is not the manager to take us forward as he can't judge player when buying and he is not act minded enough. Look at utd or arsenal they are always looking to act even upto the 90th min. We are Fu@ked now with him as it will cost a arm and leg to get rid thanks to all those lfc supports with their "in rafa we trust" crap...

Yeah, and Arsenal fans who think like you were calling for Wengers head only last season.

[Fan65]

I have said it all along rafa is not the manager to take us forward as he can't judge player when buying and he is not act minded enough. Look at utd or arsenal they are always looking to act even upto the 90th min. We are Fu@ked now with him as it will cost a arm and leg to get rid thanks to all those lfc supports with their "in rafa we trust" crap...

Did you say it when we lifted number five.

and for all Wengers clever buys it hasn't won him one

Was Torres bad judgement, or Masherano, or Reina or Johnson or Kuyt or Insua or Reira or Benayoun

[Sadgeek]

Fair point, I'd take very few of their team over ours individually, but Fergie does get so much more out of them. He's a quality manager.

Let's turn this on it's head a little. How many of our players would they want from our squad? Probably not many other than Steve G and Nando.

Take the issue of squads into account. From each squad put together the strongest 11 for each team. Then from the remainder, put together just 1 team and see what the balance of the squad is. Much as I hate saying it, our squad is piss-poor once you get past the first XI

[The Birdman]

Arsenal fans wanted Wenger out last season, a few years ago when Man U finished bottom of their CL qualifying group their fans wanted Fergie out.
The point a few of you are missing is they cope better without injured players because they have continuity in training methods, playing tactics, backroom staff, the majority of the first team squad and the main ingredient is confidence which is a bi product of the continuity.

Rafa has been here 5 years now and this season is the first one he has overal control of the playing aspects of the club from top to bottom.
Whether some of you like it or not the time to judge Rafa is in 3-4 years time, see what he has achieved with total control - it's the only way.

Oh and neither Fergie, Wenger or whoever may be in charge at Chelsea have had to sell one of their better players for 3 times the buying price then not get a penny of it to reinvest.

****ing naive a lot of the time.

[BobTheCharmer]

[/QUOTE]
Oh and neither Fergie, Wenger or whoever may be in charge at Chelsea have had to sell one of their better players for 3 times the buying price then not get a penny of it to reinvest.

****ing naive a lot of the time.[/QUOTE]

So how much of the Ronaldo cash did Fergie spend?

We sold Alonso and Arbeloa and brought in Johnson and Aqualini. This not having cash is rubbish. He's hasn't been given an excess of cash granted. But if the funds aren't there why the hell do you want us to spend money we don't have and get even further in debt? It's be a better world if all clubs spent what they could afford.

[Guest]

It's not as clear cut and over analysing things like this isn't going to lead us anywhere. There are many factors contributing to a team not performing and most of it are because of things which normally don't 'meet the eye' at first.

To say that Rafa is a 'lesser' manager than Fergie just because they got a couple of good results with their reserve team is ludicrous IMO. Does it also mean that their reserves are better than their first team, because they haven't been battering teams like this at all when they had their full team out.

[red g]

Oh and neither Fergie, Wenger or whoever may be in charge at Chelsea have had to sell one of their better players for 3 times the buying price then not get a penny of it to reinvest.

****ing naive a lot of the time.[/QUOTE]

So how much of the Ronaldo cash did Fergie spend?

We sold Alonso and Arbeloa and brought in Johnson and Aqualini. This not having cash is rubbish. He's hasn't been given an excess of cash granted. But if the funds aren't there why the hell do you want us to spend money we don't have and get even further in debt? It's be a better world if all clubs spent what they could afford.[/QUOTE]

but fergie has bought how many players around 20/30m ?


I dont think its the issue of not having the cash....its more making a plan for it, ie johnson/aquiliani and a striker.....then getting it pulled thats wahts ****ed us !!!

[red g]

We've had a **** run with injuries, most of us will agree. Its ****ed our season without doubt.

But speaking to an Arsenal mate of mine recently and he was like, we've had just as many if not more players missing and still play good football. Point taken on board.

Now Man U have up to 15 players out either through choice or actual injuries and they beat a decent team away from home 3-1 in europe on the back of a 4-0 win at west ham all this without at least 4 of their first choice back 4! They had Fletcher and Carrick at centre back ffs. I hate them with every breathe in my body, I've argued for years that fergie is a cunt and they get all the luck etc, yet credit where credit is due. Fergie gets more out of his players than Rafa does his. On paper there's not a lot between the teams. There's not many I'd want of their lot. But this is where for me a manager earns his money. Get the most out of whats at your disposal. We'd all like more money and better players but its rare you ever have that option available to you.

Or am I being unfair. Was last season and the CL run Rafa doing exactly that? Getting the upmost from the players he had? Were we overperforming?

Either way its ****ing depressing. I can see Utd winning the title and the CL. All this without Ronaldo and to a lesser extent Tevez. This could turn out to be the worst season for footballing reasons ever, utd beat our record, win another euro and we borefest and slug our way to 4th or 5th place.

Scum were missing 15 players?

Man Utd
29 Kuszczak 2.2 million
03 Evra 5.5million
08 Anderson 18million
13 Park 4million
16 Carrick 18million
17 Nani (Valencia 74) 17million and 15 million
18 Scholes free
24 Fletcher frree
28 Gibson free
07 Owen free
19 Welbeck (Obertan 74) free and 3million


so they were missing 15 players and put out a squad worth 85 million......

and you call it a level playing field?

[BFG]

Scum were missing 15 players?

Man Utd
29 Kuszczak 2.2 million
03 Evra 5.5million
08 Anderson 18million
13 Park 4million
16 Carrick 18million
17 Nani (Valencia 74) 17million and 15 million
18 Scholes free
24 Fletcher frree
28 Gibson free
07 Owen free
19 Welbeck (Obertan 74) free and 3million


so they were missing 15 players and put out a squad worth 85 million......

and you call it a level playing field?

Compare it with our last line up;

Reina - £6mil
Johnson - £17mil
Carra - n/a
Agger - £5.5mil
Insua - £2mil
Mascherano - £17mil
Lucas - £6mil
Riera - £6mil
Kuyt - £10mil
Gerrard - n/a
N'gog - £1.5mil

That's £71mil but we only have 2 very expensive players out now in Torres and Aqualani and 1 medium priced player in Babel whereas they were without Rooney, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Vidic, Tosic, Hargreaves and probably a couple more.

[Shaggy]

Compare it with our last line up;

Reina - £6mil
Johnson - £17mil
Carra - n/a
Agger - £5.5mil
Insua - £2mil
Mascherano - £17mil
Lucas - £6mil
Riera - £6mil
Kuyt - £10mil
Gerrard - n/a
N'gog - £1.5mil

That's £71mil but we only have 2 very expensive players out now in Torres and Aqualani and 1 medium priced player in Babel whereas they were without Rooney, Berbatov, Ferdinand, Vidic, Tosic, Hargreaves and probably a couple more.

But of course the "net spend mockers" will have us all believe we've spent as much as if not more than the Mancs. Cursory glances at the respective squads tells you all you need to know.