Rafa's 4-5-1

[reds123]

Rafa's philosophy of playing 2 holding midfielders and one striker has become predictable , boring and the worst of all a losing formula.

Imo only Mourinho succeeded in the Premiership with 4-5-1 because he had 10 players who could score, from no. 2 to no.11.

Rafa's Liverpool scoring ability depends only on Torres, Gerrard, sometimes Kuyt, perhaps Johnson or Agger?... who else?

But the other players' scoring record is atrocious!

So how and why on earth is Rafa being paid if he is not seeing the obvious?

To put salt on the injury he treats the likes of Pompey as if he is playing Real Madrid so, he plays a Dossena as left wing instead of babel, Riera or Benay.

Six years has passed now and things are getting worse! Pressure has doubled on the players and on him while us are being treated as 'intelligent who know that things has progressed'.

[javier_monsterano]

were we not the highest scoring team last season?

[reds123]

were we not the highest scoring team last season?

but what was the point of scoring 5 vs Newcastle and then failing to beat Fulham, Hull and Everton at Anfield?

we didn't win the league when it was in our hands as things were going.

[Mattshark]

but what was the point of scoring 5 vs Newcastle and then failing to beat Fulham, Hull and Everton at Anfield?

we didn't win the league when it was in our hands as things were going.

We scored in 2 of those games you mentioned there.

[BrianF80]

Rafa's philosophy of playing 2 holding midfielders and one striker has become predictable , boring and the worst of all a losing formula.

Imo only Mourinho succeeded in the Premiership with 4-5-1 because he had 10 players who could score, from no. 2 to no.11.

Rafa's Liverpool scoring ability depends only on Torres, Gerrard, sometimes Kuyt, perhaps Johnson or Agger?... who else?

But the other players' scoring record is atrocious!

So how and why on earth is Rafa being paid if he is not seeing the obvious?

To put salt on the injury he treats the likes of Pompey as if he is playing Real Madrid so, he plays a Dossena as left wing instead of babel, Riera or Benay.

Six years has passed now and things are getting worse! Pressure has doubled on the players and on him while us are being treated as 'intelligent who know that things has progressed'.

We haven't played with two holding midfielders for most of this season.

[jakle]

There just isn't enough quality and quick attackers on the field when we have 2 holding midfielders and when our wide players are of the ilk of Dossena and Kuyt. This results in too much pressure being placed on Gerrard and Torres to make something happen and obviously makes it easier to place extra defenders on these players to nullify their threat. Also, Gerrard is having to go deeper into midfield to compensate for a lack of an attacking minded central midfielder and this leaves us woefully short in the attacking areas, hence our troubles in breaking down some teams this year. And to make matters worse, when we do finally score a go, we seem unable to defend the lead (but thats for another topic).

[FatTony]

There just isn't enough quality and quick attackers on the field when we have 2 holding midfielders and when our wide players are of the ilk of Dossena and Kuyt. This results in too much pressure being placed on Gerrard and Torres to make something happen and obviously makes it easier to place extra defenders on these players to nullify their threat. Also, Gerrard is having to go deeper into midfield to compensate for a lack of an attacking minded central midfielder and this leaves us woefully short in the attacking areas, hence our troubles in breaking down some teams this year. And to make matters worse, when we do finally score a go, we seem unable to defend the lead (but thats for another topic).

Correct. The system is not the problem, its the personnel in it. It worked well with the brain and brilliance of Alonso, but with Lucas and Mascher in the middle it simply doesn't. When was the last time we saw Lucas spray an inch perfect 30 yard defense splitting pass? Alonso did it regularly and not only that, he and Gerrard had an almost telepathic understanding. The system fitted together so well with the men we had, now its like a jigsaw puzzle with the centre piece missing.

I can't believe that there are still fans out there who believe that Alonso wasn't a big loss.

[the rev leeroy brown]

Imo only Mourinho succeeded in the Premiership with 4-5-1 because he had 10 players who could score, from no. 2 to no.11.
.

jose played a 4-3-3 formation with only 1 holding midfielder though.

[carheex]

Correct. The system is not the problem, its the personnel in it. It worked well with the brain and brilliance of Alonso, but with Lucas and Mascher in the middle it simply doesn't. When was the last time we saw Lucas spray an inch perfect 30 yard defense splitting pass? Alonso did it regularly and not only that, he and Gerrard had an almost telepathic understanding. The system fitted together so well with the men we had, now its like a jigsaw puzzle with the centre piece missing.

I can't believe that there are still fans out there who believe that Alonso wasn't a big loss.

I can't believe there are fans out there who's memory only goes back 18 months and thinks that Alonso's last season was typical of his performances on the whole whilst at LFC.

[FatTony]

I can't believe there are fans out there who's memory only goes back 18 months and thinks that Alonso's last season was typical of his performances on the whole whilst at LFC.

ah, you'd be referring to the season he was absent loads due to injuries then...well done.

[SRR]

Rafa's philosophy of playing 2 holding midfielders and one striker has become predictable , boring and the worst of all a losing formula.

Imo only Mourinho succeeded in the Premiership with 4-5-1 because he had 10 players who could score, from no. 2 to no.11.

Rafa's Liverpool scoring ability depends only on Torres, Gerrard, sometimes Kuyt, perhaps Johnson or Agger?... who else?

But the other players' scoring record is atrocious!

So how and why on earth is Rafa being paid if he is not seeing the obvious?

To put salt on the injury he treats the likes of Pompey as if he is playing Real Madrid so, he plays a Dossena as left wing instead of babel, Riera or Benay.

Six years has passed now and things are getting worse! Pressure has doubled on the players and on him while us are being treated as 'intelligent who know that things has progressed'.

Mourinho's formation was 4-3-3 not 4-5-1, also add Yossi to our potential goal scorers his records not bad. Ngog's not done to bad either.

I don't see it as a 4-5-1 though I see it as 4-2-3-1 but that's just me. No one was complaining about the formation when we were winning and picking teams apart. Like others have pointed out the problem is the lack of creativity not the formation. Alonso has been a loss this season but that's only part of the problem in my eyes. Our inability to defend hasn't helped how many games have we seen **** defending cost us a goal? Injuries haven't helped either.

One bad season in 6 years is not a bad record, not when you look at Wenger's last few seasons and Slur Alex when he first took over.

[Redspin]

Rafa's philosophy of playing 2 holding midfielders and one striker has become predictable , boring and the worst of all a losing formula.

Imo only Mourinho succeeded in the Premiership with 4-5-1 because he had 10 players who could score, from no. 2 to no.11.

Rafa's Liverpool scoring ability depends only on Torres, Gerrard, sometimes Kuyt, perhaps Johnson or Agger?... who else?

But the other players' scoring record is atrocious!

So how and why on earth is Rafa being paid if he is not seeing the obvious?

To put salt on the injury he treats the likes of Pompey as if he is playing Real Madrid so, he plays a Dossena as left wing instead of babel, Riera or Benay.

Six years has passed now and things are getting worse! Pressure has doubled on the players and on him while us are being treated as 'intelligent who know that things has progressed'.

Please pay attention. Any Liverpool fan will know that we don't play 4-5-1 but play 4-2-3-1, an entirely different formation with entirely different dynamics

[Redspin]

Correct. The system is not the problem, its the personnel in it. It worked well with the brain and brilliance of Alonso, but with Lucas and Mascher in the middle it simply doesn't. When was the last time we saw Lucas spray an inch perfect 30 yard defense splitting pass? Alonso did it regularly and not only that, he and Gerrard had an almost telepathic understanding. The system fitted together so well with the men we had, now its like a jigsaw puzzle with the centre piece missing.

I can't believe that there are still fans out there who believe that Alonso wasn't a big loss.

Alonso provided just 3 assists out of 77 league goals, so where did all the "defence splitting" passes go to?? If they went to Gerrard with their "telepathic understanding" it certainly didn't result in more goals or wins. He rarely crossed the half-way line and contributed next to nothing in the attacking third of the pitch. These are facts, not some misty-eyed opinion

[dww]

I'm not sure that direct assists are the best way to measure his contribution. The existence of an easy to measure metric doesn't make it an appropriate one to judge anything.

[andrewces38]

Alonso provided just 3 assists out of 77 league goals, so where did all the "defence splitting" passes go to?? If they went to Gerrard with their "telepathic understanding" it certainly didn't result in more goals or wins. He rarely crossed the half-way line and contributed next to nothing in the attacking third of the pitch. These are facts, not some misty-eyed opinion

A bit harsh there I think , He didn't really have to cross the half way line he simply used the ball to do it and at a much quicker pace than what we are doing now, It's quite obvious that because of the lack of vision in our middle Gerrard is coming deeper looking for the ball which isolates Torres and even the wide players are coming inside much to often , No disrespect to Lucas or masher it's just not in their make-up to see that pass earlier hence the need to get a creative Player in the middle ASAP