Hicks to spend "big"

[Scratch]

ManU are about £650m in debt

They sell out every game, win the league cup and get to the final of the CL, are better at merchandising, and still make a loss before transfers.

Closer to £700million according to the beeb yesterday "Although no total debt figure was disclosed in the results announcement, it has previously been reported as £699m."

Ours, even without stadium naming rights etc, will be £100million less. And assuming Purslow and Ayres get another good deal (they did get £20million a year from Standard Chartered for shirt sponsership, so imagine what they could get for a company to have the rights for it's name to be associated with our stadium and our club for the next 10-20 years) then that figure could be a lot less.

[Charly]

Your figures are all wrong.

We are 350m in debt already, plus 400, equals 750.

There is no guarentee on the price of our stadium, I feel it will goup once we can afford to pay for it. Then we have several years of having to service a loan on our existing income.

And if Uefa bring in a debt free rule, we will have nowhere to turn to.

ManUre are a better investement for any buyers if both our owners have to sell, as they have the infrastructure in place already.

Moores could have financed this without plunging the club into mountains of debt.

[Scratch]

Your figures are all wrong.

We are 350m in debt already, plus 400, equals 750.

There is no guarentee on the price of our stadium, I feel it will goup once we can afford to pay for it. Then we have several years of having to service a loan on our existing income.

And if Uefa bring in a debt free rule, we will have nowhere to turn to.

ManUre are a better investement for any buyers if both our owners have to sell, as they have the infrastructure in place already.

Moores could have financed this without plunging the club into mountains of debt.

No, we are £200mill in debt, £240 at max...the only way we could get the banks to refinance was to reduce the debt from £290mil...where the **** you'e got £350mill from i'd love to know??

[dww]

Your figures are all wrong.

We are 350m in debt already, plus 400, equals 750.

Purslow says £237m is the figure of the present debt

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66236

He also says that new investment is the key to the stadium with that current debt substantially paid down.

There is no guarentee on the price of our stadium, I feel it will goup once we can afford to pay for it. Then we have several years of having to service a loan on our existing income.

And if Uefa bring in a debt free rule, we will have nowhere to turn to.

ManUre are a better investement for any buyers if both our owners have to sell, as they have the infrastructure in place already.

Moores could have financed this without plunging the club into mountains of debt.

Even if Moores could have he patently had no intention of doing it. So it's not really a meaningful point.

I'm also not sure that the infrastructures aren't converging in quality - Rafa has spent a great deal of effort improving the academy and reserves, the squad while not especially deep does have similar peak quality and in a year or so United will lose Giggs, Scholes and van der Sar whereas even our aging players still have a few more season in them.

[redstaralex]

And if Uefa bring in a debt free rule, we will have nowhere to turn to.

each country operates totally differently with some countries where the clubs own their own stadiums and others where they're rented so there's no way this can happen

[The_weatherman]

Purslow says £237m is the figure of the present debt

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66236

He also says that new investment is the key to the stadium with that current debt substantially paid down.

They have gotten the debt down pretty fast, I have to say I feel a bit more comfortable now, not happy (far from it) but not fearing another Leeds. I think they will find ways to finance the stadium so the debt will not be directly on the club (plus sponsors etc.) so when UEFA insists on clubs being debt free we will hopefully be fine. I would be more worried if was a United fan.

[Charly]

No, we are £200mill in debt, £240 at max...the only way we could get the banks to refinance was to reduce the debt from £290mil...where the **** you'e got £350mill from i'd love to know??

The 350 was secured originally against the club last year. I thought that, on refinancing, 250 was secured against the club although the club are still servicing the whole debt.

[Charly]

I'm also not sure that the infrastructures aren't converging in quality - Rafa has spent a great deal of effort improving the academy and reserves, the squad while not especially deep does have similar peak quality and in a year or so United will lose Giggs, Scholes and van der Sar whereas even our aging players still have a few more season in them.

I meant the stadium. Their team is ****e

[Charly]

They have gotten the debt down pretty fast, I have to say I feel a bit more comfortable now, not happy (far from it) but not fearing another Leeds. I think they will find ways to finance the stadium so the debt will not be directly on the club (plus sponsors etc.) so when UEFA insists on clubs being debt free we will hopefully be fine. I would be more worried if was a United fan.

They could build the stadium as a separate company not owned by LFC, and rent it back to us. Not sure we want that though.

Regardless, they still seem to make the club pay interest payments. Its these that are depressibg me, as it will be more than we can afford and will effectively halt investment on the team. Interest rates now are really low, and will probably be much higher in a couple of years.

[The_weatherman]

The 350 was secured originally against the club last year. I thought that, on refinancing, 250 was secured against the club although the club are still servicing the whole debt.

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=62309&highlight=refinance

No, during the refinance they had to pay the debt down, think Xabi Alonso.....

[The_weatherman]

They could build the stadium as a separate company not owned by LFC, and rent it back to us. Not sure we want that though

Pretty sure that they are not going to do what I want That would be unprintable by the way.

[James P]

The 350 was secured originally against the club last year. I thought that, on refinancing, 250 was secured against the club although the club are still servicing the whole debt.

That's incorrect. The majority of the debt is not secured against the Club at all, it is secured against G&H's personal assets, and always has been. Plus the borrowing has never reached £350m, or anywhere near that.

The structure is that Kop Investment LLC owns Kop Football (Cayman) Limited (KFCL), which owns Kop Football (Holdings) Limited (KFHL), which owns Kop Football Limited, whichs owns the Club and other trading assets.

As at July 2008 (the last filed accounts for KFHL) the total facility was £350.5m, of which £245m was the facility for KFL, and £105.5m was the facility for the Club. Total draw down against that at that date was just under £260m, and we all know that £60m has been paid against that since - hence the £200m that Hicks talks about.

Of that borrowing, £185m was secured against personal guarantees by G&H, with the balance secured against the Club. If the facility has been renewed on a similar basis (and I'd be surprised if they had reduced the amount secured against G&H personally - until the accounts come out we won't know) then the Club is securing just £15m of the borrowing. A further £58m was due to KFCL, but that money is not repayable if doing so would cause KFHL to become insolvent.

I'm no big fan of G&H, and would love to see new investors with more cash and real plans to take things forward, but at the same time it annoys me when people quote figures and make claims that are entirely based in conjecture, not fact. The numbers above are taken straight out of the 2008 KFHL accounts, so they tell the actual story.

[Lecter]

What an idiotic reaction, to promise a big summer spend..

Everythings relative though isnt it

Big in comparison to the January spend - so we can expect 2 Bosmans instead of just 1

Or big in comparison to the spending of our competitors

[Lecter]

Purslow says £237m is the figure of the present debt

http://www.est1892.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=66236

He also says that new investment is the key to the stadium with that current debt substantially paid down.



.

I thought that was a very interest point by Purslow

Essentially the banks have said enough is enough. No new investment = no new stadium

Clearly the banks dont have much faith in the current owners

[Exiled_red]

I've just had a thought maybe Hicks spending big means he's just going to up his expenses claims from the club. Take more expensive flights, stay in more expensive hotels, eat more expensive food etc...