Originally posted by PeteBest
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I think this way because I can recollect which things were said when Houllier was 'living his last moments' as a Liverpool manager. It wasn't too dissimilar to what's being said to be fair.Originally posted by ronanm View PostYou think we're all wrong because you THINK we're going to have the same argument. Anyway, it's pedantics at this stage - I hope you're right.
Progression isn't a perfect upward curve, it has got its highs and lows. I don't like the 'fickleness' of fans though, and I don't mean to disrespect anyone by saying so, just telling it how I see it. I was gutted last night, as much as all of you. But I am not the one who will jump straight at Rafa, blaming all our ills on him though. I am trying to be rational, looking at who could be good enough to replace him and do a better job etc ... but I can't see anyone.
You've got to give credit where it's due. We are years ahead compared to what it was under Houllier. We have been consistently improving in the league under Rafa, culminating into a 2nd place finish last season. Some people will find parallels to what it was under Houllier when we finished second, but there aren't any if you ask me, this is pure coincidence.
There are factors which can be used to explain why we've had a disastrous season, but I won't go into that again. To say that we play dire, negative football is completely false though, as I think it's all down to confidence how well we play. Football players don't need a colonel as manager to revive their spirits, they are paid enough to motivate themselves, it's not as if Rafa is managing a team of kids is it?
Obviously results will eventually decide Rafa's fate, but I'd love Purslow and the owners to resist sacking him, even if the supporters have turned against him. Leave this to clubs such as Bolton.
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Teams have learned how to play against us though. They stick 10 men behind the ball, which will stop us from scoring, and then they try to snatch the odd goal from a set-peice or counter attack.Originally posted by PeteBest View PostAll the points you make is all down to confidence, not to the way Rafa has built the team. We were scoring goals for fun last year. Saying that Rafa has built a robotic team is complete bollocks, no offence mate.
We only look a half-decent side when we play top teams as they do not use this tactic and play their own game.
Its all down to no pace and no creativity from midfield and wide-areas.
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i have to disagree there, psychology is a big part of any sport, and every player needs a different approach, it's down to the manager to reconise that, and act accordingly to get the maximum out of the players. and especially when a team is in a slump such as ours, you need a manager who knows his way around players and is able to lift their spirits (yes, yes, we all know about the 2005 CL final, but if you're not motivated in a CL final when are you gonna be?) and i for one am not sure rafa is the kind of manager to do that. he's far to analytical, and imo neglects the psychologycal aspect of the game.Originally posted by PeteBest View PostI think this way because I can recollect which things were said when Houllier was 'living his last moments' as a Liverpool manager. It wasn't too dissimilar to what's being said to be fair.
Progression isn't a perfect upward curve, it has got its highs and lows. I don't like the 'fickleness' of fans though, and I don't mean to disrespect anyone by saying so, just telling it how I see it. I was gutted last night, as much as all of you. But I am not the one who will jump straight at Rafa, blaming all our ills on him though. I am trying to be rational, looking at who could be good enough to replace him and do a better job etc ... but I can't see anyone.
You've got to give credit where it's due. We are years ahead compared to what it was under Houllier. We have been consistently improving in the league under Rafa, culminating into a 2nd place finish last season. Some people will find parallels to what it was under Houllier when we finished second, but there aren't any if you ask me, this is pure coincidence.
There are factors which can be used to explain why we've had a disastrous season, but I won't go into that again. To say that we play dire, negative football is completely false though, as I think it's all down to confidence how well we play. Football players don't need a colonel as manager to revive their spirits, they are paid enough to motivate themselves, it's not as if Rafa is managing a team of kids is it?
Obviously results will eventually decide Rafa's fate, but I'd love Purslow and the owners to resist sacking him, even if the supporters have turned against him. Leave this to clubs such as Bolton.Jürgen Klopp
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We don't seem to suffer from those ills when we are full of confidence though. Now is not the time to analyse our 'style of football' and our inadequacies in dealing with teams which pack their defence.Originally posted by Parr_Zee View PostTeams have learned how to play against us though. They stick 10 men behind the ball, which will stop us from scoring, and then they try to snatch the odd goal from a set-peice or counter attack.
We only look a half-decent side when we play top teams as they do not use this tactic and play their own game.
Its all down to no pace and no creativity from midfield and wide-areas.
We need a consistent run of positive results, by winning ugly, even if it means hoofing it up and bypassing the midfield. It's all about character and forcing our way through this rot. Confidence is built on top of that.
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Originally posted by PeteBest View PostI think this way because I can recollect which things were said when Houllier was 'living his last moments' as a Liverpool manager. It wasn't too dissimilar to what's being said to be fair.
Progression isn't a perfect upward curve, it has got its highs and lows. I don't like the 'fickleness' of fans though, and I don't mean to disrespect anyone by saying so, just telling it how I see it. I was gutted last night, as much as all of you. But I am not the one who will jump straight at Rafa, blaming all our ills on him though. I am trying to be rational, looking at who could be good enough to replace him and do a better job etc ... but I can't see anyone.
You've got to give credit where it's due. We are years ahead compared to what it was under Houllier. We have been consistently improving in the league under Rafa, culminating into a 2nd place finish last season. Some people will find parallels to what it was under Houllier when we finished second, but there aren't any if you ask me, this is pure coincidence.
There are factors which can be used to explain why we've had a disastrous season, but I won't go into that again. To say that we play dire, negative football is completely false though, as I think it's all down to confidence how well we play. Football players don't need a colonel as manager to revive their spirits, they are paid enough to motivate themselves, it's not as if Rafa is managing a team of kids is it?
Obviously results will eventually decide Rafa's fate, but I'd love Purslow and the owners to resist sacking him, even if the supporters have turned against him. Leave this to clubs such as Bolton.
I actually share your point of view, but there doesn't seem to be an end in sight thats the problem. Until Rafa returns to his old meticulous and cut throat ways the players wont respond.
Simple things like bending Carras ear about long balls, telling Torres that its not just him and Stevie on the pitch. Telling Stevie to get on the end of setpieces and let some one elsefloat them in.
Is this why Rafa never signed big stars? Can he handle the egos in the team?
Rafa needs to readdress the situation and nip these things in the bud.
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surely it is?Originally posted by PeteBest View PostWe don't seem to suffer from those ills when we are full of confidence though. Now is not the time to analyse our 'style of football' and our inadequacies in dealing with teams which pack their defence.
We need a consistent run of positive results, by winning ugly, even if it means hoofing it up and bypassing the midfield. It's all about character and forcing our way through this rot. Confidence is built on top of that.
maybe the opposition know that becuase rafa is super analytical he sets up his team not to lose against that opposition, then they change something against us and we are ****ed. No plan b_____________________________________
Weak willed, Wank or do they have a masterplan?
Think we have the answer..Slot!!



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I can understand that but the manager doesn't need to possess all these skills. Maybe he should recognise that someone could do this better, and that's possibly why Sammy Lee has been brought on board, who knows? Maybe he should employ someone like Eileen Drewery?Originally posted by SlovenianKopite View Posti have to disagree there, psychology is a big part of any sport, and every player needs a different approach, it's down to the manager to reconise that, and act accordingly to get the maximum out of the players. and especially when a team is in a slump such as ours, you need a manager who knows his way around players and is able to lift their spirits (yes, yes, we all know about the 2005 CL final, but if you're not motivated in a CL final when are you gonna be?) and i for one am not sure rafa is the kind of manager to do that. he's far to analytical, and imo neglects the psychologycal aspect of the game.
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But we dont need to win ugly, we have been doing that for long enough now is the time to play. These players can play, winning ugle is for a midfield with a Sissoko not an Aquiliani.Originally posted by PeteBest View PostWe don't seem to suffer from those ills when we are full of confidence though. Now is not the time to analyse our 'style of football' and our inadequacies in dealing with teams which pack their defence.
We need a consistent run of positive results, by winning ugly, even if it means hoofing it up and bypassing the midfield. It's all about character and forcing our way through this rot. Confidence is built on top of that.
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Your right its the poor football thats killing us.Originally posted by red g View Postsurely it is?
maybe the opposition know that becuase rafa is super analytical he sets up his team not to lose against that opposition, then they change something against us and we are ****ed. No plan b
Torres doesn't want to by fighting for long balls in the air for 90 minutes ffs.
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Hmmm ... I've seen this before.Originally posted by red g View Postsurely it is?
maybe the opposition know that becuase rafa is super analytical he sets up his team not to lose against that opposition, then they change something against us and we are ****ed. No plan b
Funny though, people have been saying when Rafa arrived, that he was so meticulous that he had many systems as backup. Remember the change of formation at half time in Istanbul, when we changed to a 3-5-2?
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Playing ping pong football doesn't seem to be working either, when players are anxious and taking too long to pass the ball, when no player is doing proper runs etc ... You've got to force it through somewhat by charging, that's what Reading did in injury time no?Originally posted by Armchairkopite View PostBut we dont need to win ugly, we have been doing that for long enough now is the time to play. These players can play, winning ugle is for a midfield with a Sissoko not an Aquiliani.
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i have no idea who that isOriginally posted by PeteBest View PostI can understand that but the manager doesn't need to possess all these skills. Maybe he should recognise that someone could do this better, and that's possibly why Sammy Lee has been brought on board, who knows? Maybe he should employ someone like Eileen Drewery?
anyway, you'll see that other top managers mainly have good man-managment skills, secondly they're good tacticaly, so they surround them selves with a team full of experts to aid them in their faults. rafa is the opposite, he's a fantastic tactitian who surrounded himself with a team of experts - and sammy lee, now how much freedom sammy has, to deal with players egos, and other needs i do not know. but i can tell you from personal experience, it's better to gain recognition, for a good display from the manager than it is from the assistant
i'd take winning ugly, as winning alone breeds confidence, and that we lack.Originally posted by Armchairkopite View PostBut we dont need to win ugly, we have been doing that for long enough now is the time to play. These players can play, winning ugle is for a midfield with a Sissoko not an Aquiliani.
Jürgen Klopp
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Originally posted by Parr_Zee View PostTeams have learned how to play against us though. They stick 10 men behind the ball, which will stop us from scoring, and then they try to snatch the odd goal from a set-peice or counter attack.
We only look a half-decent side when we play top teams as they do not use this tactic and play their own game.
Its all down to no pace and no creativity from midfield and wide-areas.
it's just easy for the opponents - must be a piece of piss playing against us at the moment.
If i was managing a team it'd be easiest team talk ever - Keep tight, block out the middle of the park, don't worry bout the flanks because there is zero threat from there, let liverpool have the ball - they can pass it left to right in front of us all day long, eventually they will have to try something. When they do 9 times out 10 it will be a 'wide' player coming inside where we are sitting tight - he will run into trouble 90% of the time and give the ball away, get the ball - give it too [insert name of player in opposition who has a yard of pace] and hit them on the break. Look to make the most of our set pieces. The only threat is a moment of magic from Gerrard (who cna't be arsed) or Torres (who is unfit) - if that happens well we are just unlucky.i own everton fans on the internet....that's what i do
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How can you be sure he does it on purpose mate?
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