Poll - Should Rafa stay?

[Craig_H]

Not much. So having spent £135million more than us and £65million more than the mancs since he arrived isn't enough for him? How much more should he have to spend than these two clubs?

£140mill net and £105million net as well before you ask.

What are you on about with £135m more than you? He's spent £90m ish net since he's been here.

If you want to compare between us and you, which you seem keen on doing with the comparitive spends, lets do so with honours too.

5 years and a Champions League win, along with another final.

So basically in 2007 alone, Rafa equalled Wenger's entire european achievements during his whole tenure. Wenger would give his right bollock for a European Cup and i'm willing to bet that you'd donate an ovary to the cause if you thought it'd help.

[Shaggy]

He's still spent more than Wenger and Ferguson in that time. He's hardly spent nothing.

Wenger - no arguments, spent next to nothing. Still won pretty much **** all in the time Benitez has been here. Always 12 months away from those fabled youngsters maturing into winners eh.

Ferguson is a different argument entirely, all he's had to do is top up an already successful squad with a string of £18m-£30m signings. Benitez has overhauled an entire squad, bar Gerrard and Carragher, on a budget of £16m per year - and on that limited budget got us to two European Cup finals, winning one, and within a whisker of winning the title with a points tally which would've won the Premier League on seven occasions.

[Craig_H]

He's still spent more than Wenger and Ferguson in that time. He's hardly spent nothing.

And he's also won more than Wenger in that time.

Ferguson had the basis of a title winning squad already built well before Rafa turned up. Take Ferguson's squad when he got there and work out how much it cost and how long it took to build a title winning squad.

Your username is only slightly less ironic than an Arsenal fan preaching to Liverpool fans about success in the last 5 years.

[destinydude]

I'm not blaming that for this season. This season's been ****e, but our mate from Arsenal will remember the year that Spurs sat in 4th place all the way through, until the last day. Anyone can have a **** season and i think Rafa's entitled to one too.

Yea fair play to you then but I wudnt agree with the underlined part but :|

[vlahka]

Is anyone going to give Beardsley stick for saying Dalglish would be a good choice to take over? Seems some people here have no problem calling the poster an idiot for listing him as a choice of manager.

[Craig_H]

Beardsley's not calling for Rafa to go.

[destinydude]

Dalglish coming in would make everyone involved with the club happy. But is he ready to take a full time job and deal with all the pressures again is the mill $$$$$ question.

At least it will improve the way we play our football. To me pass move pass move play a 1-2 pass pass will do anyday.

Chelsea have started to do that this season under Ancelotti and they are decent to watch now a days.

We have powerful footballers on Gerrard and Torres who are always looking to score goals. We need to set our system up in such a way that it will enhance the supply to them. Last season we achieved it this time we failed to.

Moreover the pass move a couple of 1-2's type of game will bail us out when our star players are injured and against small teams especially.

Anyway I think Im going offtopic

[Pablo]

Wenger - no arguments, spent next to nothing. Still won pretty much **** all in the time Benitez has been here. Always 12 months away from those fabled youngsters maturing into winners eh.

Ferguson is a different argument entirely, all he's had to do is top up an already successful squad with a string of £18m-£30m signings. Benitez has overhauled an entire squad, bar Gerrard and Carragher, on a budget of £16m per year - and on that limited budget got us to two European Cup finals, winning one, and within a whisker of winning the title with a points tally which would've won the Premier League on seven occasions.

And he's also won more than Wenger in that time.

Ferguson had the basis of a title winning squad already built well before Rafa turned up. Take Ferguson's squad when he got there and work out how much it cost and how long it took to build a title winning squad.

Your username is only slightly less ironic than an Arsenal fan preaching to Liverpool fans about success in the last 5 years.

Well done lads Unfortunately I fear people like him will never learn. I've seen his sort in work, and they keep rolling out the same media falsities day in, day out, no matter how often I correct them

[Shanks]

not much. So having spent £135million more than us and £65million more than the mancs since he arrived isn't enough for him? How much more should he have to spend than these two clubs?

£140mill net and £105million net as well before you ask.

FACTS!!



a top post from paul jones, who wrote the times fanzone articles:

The full list of players rafa's signed since he's been at the club (please read the summary below):

2004/05

£2m - josemi: Peanuts and was moved on in a swap for kromkamp 18 months later
£1.5m - antonio nunez: Part of the michael owen deal and filled a gap for a while. Peanuts.
£10.7m - xabi alonso: Massive success and sold for £30m+ in the summer when he wanted to leave
£6m - luis garcia: Massive success and sold to athletico madrid for £4m
free - pelligrino: Stop gap that allowed us to rest sami for league games, benefitting us massively in istanbul. Now on the coaching staff.
£6.3m - fernando morientes: Pretty much everyone made up when we signed him, top class, but never settled. Sold for £3m to valencia.
£1m - scott carson: One the most highly rated young keepers around. Lost out through injury and signing of reina when dudek left the club. Sold for £3.25m.

Total bought: £27.5m

free - marcus babbel: Released to stuttgart at the end of his career.
£2.5m - danny murphy: Xabi alonso signed to fill the role murphy had in the side
£8.5m - michael owen: Wouldn't sign a new contract and sold before he left on a free. He's done nothing since that is a masterstroke with hindsight.
Free - stephane henchoz: Released to celtic at the end of his career

total sold: £11m

a total of £16.5m net spend in his first year at the club, with the vast majority of that being spent on xabi alonso.

2004/05 net spend: £16.5m

2005/06

£240,000 - antonio barragan: Kid for the future. Sold for £675,000 to deportivo a year later.
Free - boudewijn zenden: Signed for nothing and released for nothing. Did a job for us.
£6m - pepe reina: In the top 3 or 4 keepers in the world now and still young. One of rafa's best signings.
£5.6m - momo sissoko: Brilliant for a few years, had that eye injury and sold to juventus when his form dipped for £8.2m. Replaced by mascherano.
£7m - peter crouch: One signing i did question but proved to be a great bit of business. Turned him from a laughing stock into an international. Sold for £11m.
Unkown - miki roque: Kid bought for peanuts. Sold again for an unknown amount.
£150,000 - jack hobbs: Highly rated 16yr old signed from lincoln. Didn't progress as hoped and sold to leicester for a reported £1.5m, although figure not confirmed.
£190,000 besian idrizaj: No idea who he is
£1.5m - mark gonzales: Cheap player to provide back up for the left wing. Sold for £3.5m to real betis.
Exchange - paul anderson: Swapped for john welsh. Sold for £250,000.
Exchange - jan kromkamp: Swapped for josemi. Later sold for £1.75m
£5.8m - daniel agger: Blighted by injuries but potentially top class and great signing for the money.
£250,000 - david martin: Young reserve keeper
free - robbie fowler: Pay as you play deal and no risk involved. Scored a few goals. Released in the summer.

Total bought: £26.73

free - vladimir smicer: Out of contract and released. Played a small part in istanbul.
£3.5m - el hadji diouf: The best £3.5m rafa has ever recieved.
Free - pellegrino: Filled the gap in the last 5 months of the previous season, not good enough and released.
£2m - alou diarra: Sold for £2m. One of houllier's buys.
£2m - antonio nunez: Bought for £1.5m and now sold for £2m when didn't work out.
£6.5m - milan baros: A houllier signing sold at a profit. He's done nothing since.
Exchange - john welsh: Swapped for paul anderson
exchange - josemi: Swapped for kronkamp.

Total sold: £14m

2005/06 net spend: £12.73m

2006/07

£6m - craig bellamy: Good signing and later sold for £7.5m to fund torres deal.
£2m - gabriel palletta: Played a few league cup games, not good enough and sold for £1.2m
free - fabio aurelio: Very injury prone but a good player when fit. Great signing for nothing.
£6.7m - jermaine pennant: Second choice after missing out on alves. Ran his contract down and released. Attitude stank.
£9m - dirk kuyt: Has his critics, but has been brilliant for the money. 15 goals last season from wide and vital to the way we play. Ultimate pro. Great signing.
£200,000 - nabil el zhar: Few cameos last season and improving. Injured now. Promising still. Peanuts.
£750,000 - astrit ajdarevic: No idea who he is, and released on a free to leicester.
Loan - daniele padelli: Reserve keeper, made one appearance and never seen again.
Undisclosed - jordy brouwer: Young reserve.
£2.5m - alvaro arbeloa: Bargain signing, great service for a few years and sold for £3.5m when running his contract down.
Loan - javier mascherano: Rescued from west ham, now one of the best defensive midfielders in the world and will probably be sold to barca this summer for a massive profit. Paid £18.6m for him a year later at end of loan deal.

Total bought: £27.15m

£200,000 - zak whitbread: Youngster
undisclosed - bruno cheyrou: Houllier flopped, sold for a reported £1.5m.
£3m - fernando morientes: Didn't work out. Cut his losses.
Free - didi hamann: Great servant, released at the end of his career
£675,000 - antonio barragan: Paid £240,000 for him.
£2m - djimi traore: Houllier signing and daylight robbery getting £2m for him
£500,000 - neil mellor: Signed as a kid and did a job for a while. Not good enough and released.
£1.75m - jan kromkamp: Nunez bought for £2m, swapped for him, who then sold for £1.75m. Stop gaps at minimal expense.
£525,000 - darren potter: Acadamy lad, not good enough and robbery getting that much for him.
£1.5m - steven warnock: Probably sold to cheap and looks a mistake with hindsight. Good squad player.
Free - salif diao: The clearout of houllier's flops continues.

Total sold: £10.15m

2006/07 net spend: £17m

2007/08


£5m - lucas leiva: Brazilian player of the year when signed. Could still go either way but a lot to prove.
Undisclosed - krisztian nemeth: Promising youngster currently out on loan in athens.
£270,000 - mikel san jose dominguez: Youngester plays in the reserves.
£1.8m - sebastian leto: Left winger signing but refused a work permit. Sold for £3m.
£20.2m - fernando torres: Bargain of the century
free - andriy voronin: Free transfer to strengthen the squad. Plays well in germany, garbage over here.
£5m - yossi benayoun: Took a while to settle but now a key player. Superb signing and an absolute bargain.
£11.5m - ryan babel: Highly rated dutch international. Absolute waste of space. Bad signing on reflection, but nobody knew how he'd turn out. Still got potential but he can't be arsed.
Undisclosed - charles itandje: Back up keeper signed for peanuts. Now released.
£1.3m - emiliano insua: Youngster who is now a full argentinian international and massive potential. Bargain.
£6.5m - martin skrtel: Been off form this season so far, but brilliant last year and a good signing for the money.
£18.6m - javier mascherano: Completion of loan deal

total bought: £70.7m

£2.7m – florent simana-pongolle: Houllier youngster sold wanting first team football.
£100,000 – daniel o’donnell: Kid sold
free – jerzy dudek: Released at end of contract
free - zenden: Released at end of contract
free – robbie fowler: Released at end of contract
£4m – luis garcia: Wanted to return to spain. Great service.
£6m – djibril cisse: Houllier signing sold to part fund torres deal.
£7.5m – craig bellamy: Sold at profit to part fund torres deal
£3.5m – mark gonzales: Signed for £1.5m and sold when didn’t work out.
£1.2m – gabriel palletta: Bought for £2m but never worked out. Young defender.
£3.5m – chris kirkland: Houllier signing. Injury prone and wanted first team football.
£8.2m – momo sissoko: Great signing, good service, sold when lost his form at a profit.

Total sold: £36.7m

2007/08 net spend: £34m

2008/09

free – philip degen: Garbage, but free.
£7m - andrea dossena: Italian international left back. Hasn’t settled. Bad signing.
£3.5m – diego cavalieri: Reserve keeper. Only played league cup games so far.
£1.5m – david n’gog: Young french striker. Promising.
£19m – robbie keane: Everyone made up when we signed him. Didn’t work out and sold back to spurs for £16m.
£8m - albert riera: Spanish international. Started well but jury still out.

Total bought: £39m

£4m – john arne riise: Good servant but form tailed off. Snapped their hands off at £4m.
Free – harry kewell: Harry who?
Undisclosed – anthony le tallec: Houllier youngster finally released. Fee not known.
£11m – peter crouch: Laughing stock bought for £7m. Great signing. Wanted first team football.
£2.25m – danny guthrie: Youngster from acadamy thought not good enough.
£3.25m – scott carson: Injury prone and reina now first choice. Sold at profit.
Undisclosed – steve finnan: Sold for a fee believed to be £1m
£16m – robbie keane: Didn’t work out.
Undisclosed – jack hobbs: Young defender that didn’t progress. Sold for believed to £1.5m.

Total sold: £36.5m

2008/09 net spend: £2.5m


2009/10

£17.5m – glen johnson: Big fee, but has been brilliant so far.
£17.1m - alberto aquilani: Injured so far but meant to be a class act. Highly rated in italy.
£2m – sotirios kyrgiakos: Last minute signing to fill hyypia’s shoes. Only money we had to spend.
£160,000 – daniel ayala: Young defender, played a few times this season and looked promising.

Total bought: £36.76m

£250,000 – paul anderson: Youngster that didn’t progess.
Free – jermaine pennant: Out of contract. Poor signing.
Free – miki roque: No idea who he is. Bought for peanuts.
£3m – sebastian leto: Signed for £1.8m but didn’t get a work permit. Had to sell.
£3.5m – alvaro arbeloa: Wanted to leave and out of contract in the summer.
£30m – xabi alonso: Wanted to leave. Bought for £10.7m. Great signing.

Total sold: £36.75m

2009/10 net spend: £10,000


total players bought: £228,976,000
total players sold: £145,100,000

total net spend: £83,876,000

[Shaggy]

And, as usual, 'Gracious'Gooner slinks off without reply.

[magicalbarnes]

Liverpool co-owner George Gillett believes Rafael Benitez is one of the top five managers in the world and that this season's disappointing results are just a "blip".

The club have endured a difficult campaign so far and have fallen well off the pace in the Premier League, compounded by early exits from the Champions League and FA Cup.

Benitez has been unmoved in his belief that he will turn things around and now he has received the backing of Gillett.

That is significant as Gillett has always been seen as less enthusiastic in his support for the Spaniard than fellow co-owner Tom Hicks, who has been behind Benitez from the moment the two Americans' relationship began to become strained.

"We believe if you were to put a list together of the top five coaches, managers in the world, he would definitely be on that list for us," said Gillett, who was united in his agreement with Hicks to give Benitez an improved five-year contract towards the end of last season.

"And we think he's been tossed a curve ball by circumstance, injuries and so forth.

"I think that's been a real challenge to the coach. He's had to really make some innovations and play some players out of position and so forth.

"And notwithstanding that, they've generally played with a lot of passion. I really believe it's a blip."

Injuries have certainly compounded Liverpool's problems with striker Fernando Torres, captain Steven Gerrard, right-back Glen Johnson and midfielder Yossi Benayoun all currently sidelined.

But they have also been unlucky in other areas, such as when a beach ball on the pitch at Sunderland back in October contributed to the only goal of the game for the Black Cats.

"That was a real low blow," Gillett told Canadian radio station Prime Time Sports.

"He (Benitez) has had a struggle getting the morale of the boys back up but we've got a great group of young men."

[danwms]

Stay

[Fan65]

People criticise his lack of back-up strikers but he has simply had his hands tied, he has not been allowed to keep the likes of Bellamy & Crouch as part of a squad. Every other top team has 4 strikers.

If he has a lack of back up strikers as you say why did he spend £35m the bulk of his budget, on a full back and a midfielder?

[BFG]

If he has a lack of back up strikers as you say why did he spend £35m the bulk of his budget, on a full back and a midfielder?

Maybe the fact that we'd sold a midfielder and a full back for £35million?

When you think of it in those terms it's more a case of replacing players sold than spending his 'budget,' which in reality was pretty much zero.

[the rev leeroy brown]

FACTS!!




total players bought: £228,976,000
total players sold: £145,100,000

total net spend: £83,876,000

total spent is still 228 mill!!!!!!

net spend or not 228 mill should have us a far better squad than what we have.