Alonso

[barnes10]

One thing i struggle with regarding alonso is why did we only see the best of him last season, when he wanted out and was therefore playing for a move?

he's a world class and pretty much unique talent no question. the playmaker defensive midfielder who can pass like no-one else, tackle and dictate a game's tempo. should be the first name on any team sheet right?

why then did we have his best season when he wanted out and was playing for a move? His motivations seem pretty suspect do they not? I'll write off a whole one to injury but after a decent first season he was only average until he was playing for a move.

I am in the camp that the barry swap made sense at the time. sure alonso was and is a better player, but for whatever reason, he just wasnt doing it for us for a couple of season at that point. barry had been playing well for villa and paired well with gerrard for england. so a move to a top club with proper tactics and quality team mates should, in theory have improved him further and give us some good balance down the left. i could see the logic basically.

why tho did we only see the best of alonso once he'd decided he wanted away? was it the team so much better and therefore giving him more options for the pass last season? or was it all the off the field stuff making him play for a move? i.e. rafa fall out, return to spain for family and / or money (half the tax that he mentioned) motivating him? Probably all of the above which meant on balance, it was time to move on. However that decision seems to be the spark that made him play so well.

I think playing so well just to get a move to another top club its pretty questionable to be honest and leaves a real sour taste. So much that i'd say good riddance to any player treating us like that. anyone. he definitely seems a real class bloke and very likeable. the type i want at our club.

But he was playing well within himself for most of his time with us until he wanted out. why is that?

[Chrono]

Perhaps he was trying to prove a point and ended up producing better results.

[-V-]

I completely understand where your coming from and don't blame you for thinking like that. I think some people get too comfortable when they know they are not challenged by anyone. Everyone in the team just seemed to turn to Gerrard and expect him to do all the work around that time, until Torres came along. Alonso started performing at his best after Rafa publically questioned his worth to the team, at that point Xabi realised he still had to prove himself at the highest level. After all he was not even getting a regular game for Spain until last season

[saj]

I completely understand where your coming from and don't blame you for thinking like that. I think some people get too comfortable when they know they are not challenged by anyone. Everyone in the team just seemed to turn to Gerrard and expect him to do all the work around that time, until Torres came along. Alonso started performing at his best after Rafa publically questioned his worth to the team, at that point Xabi realised he still had to prove himself at the highest level. After all he was not even getting a regular game for Spain until last season

He has been fairly regular for Spain to be honest for the last 4 years - he roughly started every other game under Aragones as he used to rotate his midfield around quite a lot. He has started virtually every game under Del Bosque though as he doesn't seem to rotate his team too much - Alonso starting every game for Spain now is not down to his form of last season.

[dom9]

Injuries.

Previous 3 seasons were frequently interupted by injuries.

[Redspin]

It's worth remembering that last season he only featured in something like two-thirds of our league games, coming on as sub in a few, so he missed quite a lot of that season. He also missed a lot more of the previous two seasons, so he was somewhat injury-prone.

Also Benitez probably, rightly, thought that he didn't offer enough in the attacking third (only 3 goals and 3 assists last season), so maybe he saw Barry as a better option, to be able to turn those draws we had into wins. Barry provided twice as many assists - 6 - in an inferior Villa side, so there's no reason why he wouldn't be even more effective in a better team.

Personally I was never a Barry fan and I'm glad we didn't get him, but it's easy to see why we were prepared to let Alonso go for a silly fee when we couldn't get £14m for him a year before.

Anyway we got a huge profit on a player who'd lived away from his home country for five years, so in the end it worked out for everyone. We couldn't reasonably expect him to stick around for ever

[the rev leeroy brown]

is this point really worth raising again?

he was injured on and off for 2 and a half seasons. when he got a full season under his belt he was great for us. 1st season and last season for us were great. end of.

[-V-]

He has been fairly regular for Spain to be honest for the last 4 years - he roughly started every other game under Aragones as he used to rotate his midfield around quite a lot. He has started virtually every game under Del Bosque though as he doesn't seem to rotate his team too much - Alonso starting every game for Spain now is not down to his form of last season.

Erm, think back to Euro 2008. Alonso was on the bench virtually every game except I think the last group game. The regulars were Senna, Xavi, Iniesta and Silva. Alonso usually came on as a sub around the 70 min mark

[saj]

One thing i struggle with regarding alonso is why did we only see the best of him last season, when he wanted out and was therefore playing for a move?

he's a world class and pretty much unique talent no question. the playmaker defensive midfielder who can pass like no-one else, tackle and dictate a game's tempo. should be the first name on any team sheet right?

why then did we have his best season when he wanted out and was playing for a move? His motivations seem pretty suspect do they not? I'll write off a whole one to injury but after a decent first season he was only average until he was playing for a move.

I am in the camp that the barry swap made sense at the time. sure alonso was and is a better player, but for whatever reason, he just wasnt doing it for us for a couple of season at that point. barry had been playing well for villa and paired well with gerrard for england. so a move to a top club with proper tactics and quality team mates should, in theory have improved him further and give us some good balance down the left. i could see the logic basically.

why tho did we only see the best of alonso once he'd decided he wanted away? was it the team so much better and therefore giving him more options for the pass last season? or was it all the off the field stuff making him play for a move? i.e. rafa fall out, return to spain for family and / or money (half the tax that he mentioned) motivating him? Probably all of the above which meant on balance, it was time to move on. However that decision seems to be the spark that made him play so well.

I think playing so well just to get a move to another top club its pretty questionable to be honest and leaves a real sour taste. So much that i'd say good riddance to any player treating us like that. anyone. he definitely seems a real class bloke and very likeable. the type i want at our club.

But he was playing well within himself for most of his time with us until he wanted out. why is that?

I think it's vastly exaggerated that he was poor in his middle 2 seasons - he was very good in his first season and the middle 2 seasons were disrupted by long term injuries but he still played well.

Rafa wasn't signing Barry as a replacement for Alonso - if you recall the interview with Rafa, he intended on playing him on the left (and linking up with Robbie Keane) and changing the formation of the team. Rafa also said at the time we were linked with Barry that he was after "a player that is English who can play at Left Back, Midfield and Left Wing" which meant he was not exclusively planning on playing him in Midfield. Due to Financial constraints, he had to sell Alonso in order to get Barry. When we missed out on Barry, we ended up signing Riera instead.

I don't think his motivations were suspect at all - he is just a great player who was reaching his peak last year and will probably still get better. The players around him were playing much better to. He definately isn't money motivated at all and he never left Liverpool for Real Madrid for the money. Alonso said in an interview he left because Liverpool wanted sell him. And the interview about TAX was bull**** if I recall - I actually think it was Arbeloa who actually/apparently did this interview about Tax.

[dww]

I think there are a number of reasons you can point to for his improved performance in his last season without resorting to assuming he was gunning for a move:
1. He was comparatively injury free
2. Lucas played a good number of games which helped keep him fit
3. Riera gave the team much needed width and that suited him
4. The Gerrard/Torres partnership had blossomed
5. The team was high on confidence after what could be considered a fortunately good start to the season. With confidence players like Kuyt showed much better touch etc.

[saj]

Erm, think back to Euro 2008. Alonso was on the bench virtually every game except I think the last group game. The regulars were Senna, Xavi, Iniesta and Silva. Alonso usually came on as a sub around the 70 min mark

Yeah but look back at the qualifiers and friendlies prior to Euro 2008 - he has managed to get 49 caps from 2004 - 2009. Yes Aragones preferred Senna to Alonso in Euro 2008 but as I said, Alonso roughly started every other game under Aragones. But under Del Bosque, he has started virtually every game.

[RedReet]

I have never subscribed to this idea that Xabi preformed better in his last season to impress potential suitors or prove a point to Rafa . Fair enough it might have helped as an incentive, but Xabi was an excellent professional an I’m sure was just as determined in previous seasons. It’s going over old ground, but not only did the injuries severely hamper his form, but it also took him a while adapting to a deeper more disciplined role after Didi left. Even when he did adapt to his new role (long before last season), people were still criticising his form because he wasn’t playing like the playmaker Xabi from the first season (a victim of his own success?). Similarly to Lucas, Xabi was excellent at anticipating moves and won possession back countless times, yet because he wasn’t as flamboyant in the tackle as Masch or Momo people weren’t noticing. I remember watching him put a string of really excellent performances together and yet the majority were still slating him. After a somewhat average performance in my eyes, I was then surprised to see Xabi get an unexpected amount of praise from certain people. It wasn’t until the next week that I got round to watching MOTD for that weekend, and found out that Hansen had highlighted Xabi’s defensive input (even though it was less than in recent performances) and that’s why people were suddenly praising him now. So although Xabi maybe wasn’t just as consistent as in his last season, he still put in plenty of excellent performances that people completely overlooked or soon forgot.

I also think people have become quite blasé about his first season now he’s left. He was absolutely outstanding for us. He put in what I would describe a perfect performance on more than one occasion. You can count the bad games he had on one hand, one finger maybe. Gerrard was supposed to go to Chelsea again that year, and unlike the previous season, it now didn’t seem that devastating. There were ongoing discussions all that season about how much of a better team we looked without Gerrard, and a lot of that was thanks to Xabi.

[RedReet]

I think it's vastly exaggerated that he was poor in his middle 2 seasons - he was very good in his first season and the middle 2 seasons were disrupted by long term injuries but he still played well.

Rafa wasn't signing Barry as a replacement for Alonso - if you recall the interview with Rafa, he intended on playing him on the left (and linking up with Robbie Keane) and changing the formation of the team. Rafa also said at the time we were linked with Barry that he was after "a player that is English who can play at Left Back, Midfield and Left Wing" which meant he was not exclusively planning on playing him in Midfield. Due to Financial constraints, he had to sell Alonso in order to get Barry. When we missed out on Barry, we ended up signing Riera instead.

I don't think his motivations were suspect at all - he is just a great player who was reaching his peak last year and will probably still get better. The players around him were playing much better to. He definately isn't money motivated at all and he never left Liverpool for Real Madrid for the money. Alonso said in an interview he left because Liverpool wanted sell him. And the interview about TAX was bull**** if I recall - I actually think it was Arbeloa who actually/apparently did this interview about Tax.

I think there are a number of reasons you can point to for his improved performance in his last season without resorting to assuming he was gunning for a move:
1. He was comparatively injury free
2. Lucas played a good number of games which helped keep him fit
3. Riera gave the team much needed width and that suited him
4. The Gerrard/Torres partnership had blossomed
5. The team was high on confidence after what could be considered a fortunately good start to the season. With confidence players like Kuyt showed much better touch etc.

All our Spanish players were probably on a high after the Euro's as well.

[badpiggy]

I have never subscribed to this idea that Xabi preformed better in his last season to impress potential suitors or prove a point to Rafa . Fair enough it might have helped as an incentive, but Xabi was an excellent professional an I’m sure was just as determined in previous seasons. It’s going over old ground, but not only did the injuries severely hamper his form, but it also took him a while adapting to a deeper more disciplined role after Didi left. Even when he did adapt to his new role (long before last season), people were still criticising his form because he wasn’t playing like the playmaker Xabi from the first season (a victim of his own success?). Similarly to Lucas, Xabi was excellent at anticipating moves and won possession back countless times, yet because he wasn’t as flamboyant in the tackle as Masch or Momo people weren’t noticing. I remember watching him put a string of really excellent performances together and yet the majority were still slating him. After a somewhat average performance in my eyes, I was then surprised to see Xabi get an unexpected amount of praise from certain people. It wasn’t until the next week that I got round to watching MOTD for that weekend, and found out that Hansen had highlighted Xabi’s defensive input (even though it was less than in recent performances) and that’s why people were suddenly praising him now. So although Xabi maybe wasn’t just as consistent as in his last season, he still put in plenty of excellent performances that people completely overlooked or soon forgot.

I also think people have become quite blasé about his first season now he’s left. He was absolutely outstanding for us. He put in what I would describe a perfect performance on more than one occasion. You can count the bad games he had on one hand, one finger maybe. Gerrard was supposed to go to Chelsea again that year, and unlike the previous season, it now didn’t seem that devastating. There were ongoing discussions all that season about how much of a better team we looked without Gerrard, and a lot of that was thanks to Xabi.

what an excellent post .

[saj]

I think there are a number of reasons you can point to for his improved performance in his last season without resorting to assuming he was gunning for a move:
1. He was comparatively injury free
2. Lucas played a good number of games which helped keep him fit
3. Riera gave the team much needed width and that suited him
4. The Gerrard/Torres partnership had blossomed
5. The team was high on confidence after what could be considered a fortunately good start to the season. With confidence players like Kuyt showed much better touch etc.

Can't disagree with any of that