A poll

[Vincelfc]

The fact that so many people are still loyal to rafa is touching and is a part of the reason why I think our club is special.

I love rafa. I have admired his persona, his dignity (mostly). I desperately wished he would be the one. However I think we are going backwards. I think the 2nd place finish may end up being viewed as a blip, an over achievement in the face of an ongoing inability to make a real go of winning the league.

The evidence is there for all to see. In the league over the whole of his reign we have mainly played unattractive, negative football. We give lesser teams far too much respect. I am sick of seeing each win as "turning the corner" to be followed by further evidence of decline in the next match.

I hope I am wrong but as I see it Rafa is a goner. I think he has lost the players and he is starting to lose the fans with his stubbornness. I also see evidence in his pitch side mannerisms and interviews that he knows his time is nearly up.

I know this issue divides us all greatly, as can be seen by the poll above but I think it is time for a serious debate about who should replace the boss.

I am deeply sorry to appear disloyal but this utter mediocrity cannot continue.

Unfortunately I agree with you - I think Rafa's time is up and it's LFC who will have lost out.

Juve and Real Madrid know he is a great manager and desperately want him - they will have the funds to allow him to create a successful football team as he did at Valencia. Remember the football they played against us in the good old days under Houllier!

Mourino would do no better than Benitez under the constraints Benitez has to work under, no funding and bitter in fighting within the club. Mourinho wouldn't come to the club unless he was guaranteed substantial transfer funds.

With the funding as it is we would do better to have Roy Hodgson as manager rather than a Hiddink or Mourinho, he has a proven record of working within a tight budget, getting the best out of his players and playing good football.

[Vermilion]

With our status and the importance of CL revenues, yes - failure to qualify for it is catastrophic and it should cost him his job.

4th place is a bare minimum, not the extent of our ambitions.

Doing it consistently isnt something to be proud of, or some major achievement.

That's it in a nutshell, expectations, i believe finshing in the top 4 in THIS league with sides like utd and Chelsea who are more or less guarenteed to be there, leaving 2 spots, has been an achievment, yes we aspire to more, yes we want the title...but imo, taking everthing into consideration that will only ever happen as a one off, unless something changes off the field and enables us to attract and buy the very best players, the players our rivals buy.

As for the importance of revenue from finsihing 4th and being in the Champions league, i'd agree if the cash generated was being spent on players, but it's not, and we know who we have to thank for that, the same two people who failed to realise we were at a very important point in our history, and who failed to invest in last seasons success, instead they let the manger make his plans, then whipped 20mill from his promised player budget.

As the club stands, and as it has stood under Moores, it actually amazes me that fans beleive any manager would keep us top 4 for ever, and looking at this season as a whole so far, i also find it hard to believe that any fan would think it's all just down to the manager suddenly becoming useless, and having the wrong methods.

So no, i don't lay all the blame at Rafa's door, even though he has undoubtably made mistakes during his tenure.

[Darkon]

May not always agree with him, but he does have genuine passion.

on some level! he totally neglected us in the handball thread even though he was given a team to support!!

Selective passion I say!

[Craig_H]

That's it in a nutshell, expectations, i believe finshing in the top 4 in THIS league with sides like utd and Chelsea who are more or less guarenteed to be there, leaving 2 spots, has been an achievment, yes we aspire to more, yes we want the title...but imo, taking everthing into consideration that will only ever happen as a one off, unless something changes off the field and enables us to attract and buy the very best players, the players our rivals buy.

It's not a specially great achievement though, not with the squad we have.

We have the 3rd or 4th best team in THIS league, yet are struggling to even finish 4th.

That's underachievement. We could very easily finish 6th or 7th still.
This would be an absolute disgrace, with our squad.

As for the importance of revenue from finsihing 4th and being in the Champions league, i'd agree if the cash generated was being spent on players, but it's not, and we know who we have to thank for that, the same two people who failed to realise we were at a very important point in our history, and who failed to invest in last seasons success, instead they let the manger make his plans, then whipped 20mill from his promised player budget.

Of course it's still important revenue.

The interest and debt repayments still have to be paid, whether it comes from CL money or not.

The CL money usually provides the bulk of it. Without this revenue, those repayments will have to be funded in another way - so say farewell to Mascherano perhaps?

So regardless of whether CL revenues go on transfer budgets or repayments, they're still crucial revenue streams for the club. If CL revenues dont mean the ability to sign new top players, they will at least mean we can retain the services of the top players we have.

As the club stands, and as it has stood under Moores, it actually amazes me that fans beleive any manager would keep us top 4 for ever, and looking at this season as a whole so far, i also find it hard to believe that any fan would think it's all just down to the manager suddenly becoming useless, and having the wrong methods.

So no, i don't lay all the blame at Rafa's door, even though he has undoubtably made mistakes during his tenure.

I never said forever though. I'm talking about this season.

The level of success we achieve, has to be in proportion with the level of quality in our team & squad. Like i said, if we had the 6th best squad, then fair enough, top four would be an achievement. But that's not how poorly i rate our squad. It's plenty good enough to be fourth. It was 4 points off winning the thing last season, after all. So i dont see how we can suddenly perceive ourselves to be almost 'punching above our weight' if we manage to somehow make 4th place.

By all means, dont lay 'all' the blame at Rafa's door, but that doesnt mean dont lay any of it at his door. When the manager has the vast majority of a title challenging squad at his disposal, and then contrives to only just make 4th place with that squad (or even less than that) just one season later, questions have to be asked of him.

[Vermilion]

I'm afraid we just see it differently, none of the above makes any sense to me, "Vast majority of a title challenging squad at his disposal"...are you sure ? you know as well as i do that it's our big players that make most impact, and that the vast majority of our squad is lacking in quality once we get past the first 15 choices, unlike other top sides we've not had the money to really improve our squad quality, so injuries really have an impact on us, more so when it's our star players missing.

It seems so black and white to you, we don't finish 4th so sack the manager, i am so far from that opinion myself, i have to take everthing into consideration, not just the finishing position, and when i do, i say no ****in wonder.

But what gets me most, is that a minority of Liverpool fans are'nt prepared to say ok, one bad season, and one with many mitigating circumstances, lets give the man the benefit of the doubt and go again next season.

Not that it really matters, as i don't really believe our present owners will relieve him of his duties, so go again we will.

[Craig_H]

I'm afraid we just see it differently, none of the above makes any sense to me, "Vast majority of a title challenging squad at his disposal"...are you sure ? you know as well as i do that it's our big players that make most impact, and that the vast majority of our squad is lacking in quality once we get past the first 15 choices, unlike other top sides we've not had the money to really improve our squad quality, so injuries really have an impact on us.

It seems so black and white to you, we don't finish 4th so sack the manager, i am so far from that opinion myself, i have to take everthing into consideration, not just the finishing position, and when i do, i say no ****in wonder.

Well yes, i'm sure - we challenged for the title last season and he has the vast majority of that squad still at his disposal.

What's incorrect about that?

The squad had enough quality to be brilliant last season, so they're capable. Now we've reached the point where the manager's no longer getting the best out of them, or looking like doing it.

All in all, you're taking everything into consideration, and your view seems to imply to me, that you think our squad isnt the 3rd or 4th best in the league - but rather maybe the 5th, 6th or 7th.

That's a view i strongly dont subsribe to and i still dont know how a side which goes within 4 points of winning it, can turn into a side which struggles to (and IMO will fail to) qualify for the CL just one year later - other than by suggesting that the manager's got it very wrong.

[Vermilion]

We'll never agree on this, you blame the manager, where as i blame the manager, the club and the players.

edit. No!!!! Leave it Craig, enough!!

[Craig_H]

I blame the players too, but it's ultimately the manager who has overall responsibility for the team's performance.

[Vermilion]

I blame the players too, but it's ultimately the manager who has overall responsibility for the team's performance.

[pondus]

No

WTF, not allowed a simple "no" answer?!? Has to be at least three characters.... **** forum

[EwarWoo]

WTF, not allowed a simple "no" answer?!? Has to be at least three characters.... **** forum

Best sack the manager then

[Frodo]

Rafa Benitez, Rafa Benitezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....Is the man and always will be the man.
Just watch, He's going to lead us to the Europa League and we are going to finish fourth, quite comfortably.
Then next season, YES, NEXT SEASON....is going to be our season and we are going to walk away with the title..
Don't say I didn't tell you so....

BUT....if they do sack him in the summer, I think we should appoint Steve McClaren as manager, I think he would do really well for us....

[lickedlollipop]

BUT....if they do sack him in the summer, I think we should appoint Steve McClaren as manager, I think he would do really well for us....

Hughes, IMO.

[-V-]

Rafa Benitez, Rafa Benitezzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....Is the man and always will be the man.
Just watch, He's going to lead us to the Europa League and we are going to finish fourth, quite comfortably.
Then next season, YES, NEXT SEASON....is going to be our season and we are going to walk away with the title..
Don't say I didn't tell you so....

BUT....if they do sack him in the summer, I think we should appoint Steve McClaren as manager, I think he would do really well for us....

WUM

Hughes, IMO.

One of fergies manc boys are you joking? He was crap at City

[lickedlollipop]

i hope i am joking ask owners