Looking at long-term consistency...

[Paul12]

...I notice that, since the beginning of the 08/09 season, only Chelsea have suffered fewer league defeacts than Liverpool. (Chelsea 12, us and ManUre 14 and Arsenal 15.) Now, I know what counts are trophies, not statistics, but I think that shows the progress we have made over the last few years and it puts the current season in context.

[Kinell]

Then there is the 15 draws compared to United's 8 in the same time period. Apart from the dodgy spell at the end of last year your right though we have shown consistency. We just need that crucial investment in certain areas to take us to the next level and ensure that we are building on the consistency rather than just making do on it.

[Exiled_red]

Then there is the 15 draws compared to United's 8 in the same time period. Apart from the dodgy spell at the end of last year your right though we have shown consistency. We just need that crucial investment in certain areas to take us to the next level and ensure that we are building on the consistency rather than just making do on it.

The reason why we didn't win the league last year was too many draws, a draw is almost as costly as a defeat. I've said numerous times before it's not so much the games you lose as the games you fail to win, which cost you. The 7 more draws we had than United cost us 14 points

[barnes10]

So are we too negative? our best spell, and the reason for points that give rise to the optimism in this thread came when we were less defensive - after we'd thrown it away and had 'nothing to lose'

Are we too defensive in our approach to ever win a title without everyone around us faltering?

[Craig_H]

So are we too negative? our best spell, and the reason for points that give rise to the optimism in this thread came when we were less defensive - after we'd thrown it away and had 'nothing to lose'

Are we too defensive in our approach to ever win a title without everyone around us faltering?

I think that's a no brainer, myself. The answer IMO is, of course we are, the evidence backs that up. The difference in how we approach certain games, compared to how United do, is massive. We're far too cautious.

It's the one fatal flaw of Rafa, for me, and it's the reason i dont think we'll win the title under his management. Hate to say it, but it's my honest viewpoint.

[Vermilion]

I think that's a no brainer, myself. The answer IMO is, of course we are, the evidence backs that up. The difference in how we approach certain games, compared to how United do, is massive. We're far too cautious.

It's the one fatal flaw of Rafa, for me, and it's the reason i dont think we'll win the title under his management. Hate to say it, but it's my honest viewpoint.

I agree, but even with this defensive approach we've still managed to score plenty of goals, matching our main rivals i think, makes me wonder how we don't win the title all the time, with so many goals and a defensive approach which should enable us to conceed less, such fine lines between success and failure.

[Paul12]

I thought I had read somewhere that Rafa had realised that we needed to turn draws into wins and defeats and that was why he had purchased Aquilani as a replacement for Alonso and gone for even more attacking fullbacks. Unfortunately (a) defenders lost form at the beginning of the season and (b) our main offensive players have been unfit for most of the season.

So I think Rafa understands, and his plan A was spot on. It is his plan B that has so frustrated me (playing unfit players and young replacements in a formation that seems to work only when Gerrard and Torres are fit).

[Craig_H]

I agree, but even with this defensive approach we've still managed to score plenty of goals, matching our main rivals i think, makes me wonder how we don't win the title all the time, with so many goals and a defensive approach which should enable us to conceed less, such fine lines between success and failure.

Where we've scored a high number of goals in a season, i think there's been a case of games against fodder, who we've netted 4 or 5 against. But in other games, where teams have stifled us, we've lacked the attacking prowess to batter them into submission, until they finally crack and we score. The mancs do this very well and it's there for all to see, when they're chasing a winner or a goal, they'll have 6 players in the opposition box, they pile forward, increase the pressure and force a goal, more often than not.

We've never played with this kind of attacking intent, other than the final third of last season where, as has been said, we were so far behind United, that we basically HAD to throw caution to the wind and win every game.

We go to places like Birmingham, Wolves, Pompey etc, trying to keep a clean sheet and HOPING Gerrard or Torres will produce a bit of magic to 'nick' us the win. It's a gameplan that relies on doing JUST enough. And of course, sometimes you fail to achieve what you aim for, so you dont win.

The mancs will go out to win by 2 or 3 goals. So if they fail to meet their objective, they'll often still end up winning, albeit by just the odd goal.

Obviously it doesnt ALWAYS work, no plan is perfect, but proportionally speaking, it yields far more points overall and the outcome is that they win titles and we dont.

[Craig_H]

I thought I had read somewhere that Rafa had realised that we needed to turn draws into wins and defeats and that was why he had purchased Aquilani as a replacement for Alonso and gone for even more attacking fullbacks. Unfortunately (a) defenders lost form at the beginning of the season and (b) our main offensive players have been unfit for most of the season.

So I think Rafa understands, and his plan A was spot on. It is his plan B that has so frustrated me (playing unfit players and young replacements in a formation that seems to work only when Gerrard and Torres are fit).

I'm not sure if he's really understood, as it's less about the players you use, but more about the playing mentality you send them out with.

If he'd understood, we wouldnt have played the way we did at Pompey, Wolves and others.

If he HAS understood, i'd like to know why it took 5 years.

[Vermilion]

Where we've scored a high number of goals in a season, i think there's been a case of games against fodder, who we've netted 4 or 5 against. But in other games, where teams have stifled us, we've lacked the attacking prowess to batter them into submission, until they finally crack and we score. The mancs do this very well and it's there for all to see, when they're chasing a winner or a goal, they'll have 6 players in the opposition box, they pile forward, increase the pressure and force a goal, more often than not.

We've never played with this kind of attacking intent, other than the final third of last season where, as has been said, we were so far behind United, that we basically HAD to throw caution to the wind and win every game.

We go to places like Birmingham, Wolves, Pompey etc, trying to keep a clean sheet and HOPING Gerrard or Torres will produce a bit of magic to 'nick' us the win. It's a gameplan that relies on doing JUST enough. And of course, sometimes you fail to achieve what you aim for, so you dont win.

The mancs will go out to win by 2 or 3 goals. So if they fail to meet their objective, they'll often still end up winning, albeit by just the odd goal.

Obviously it doesnt ALWAYS work, no plan is perfect, but proportionally speaking, it yields far more points overall and the outcome is that they win titles and we dont.

Very detailed explanation there Craig, and i'm sure it's great....But, any chance you can condense it into a brief synopsis, ta.

[Craig_H]

:bird:

[Exiled_red]

IMO we are set up a little to negatively alot of the time, also we worry too much about trying to stop the opposition rather than letting them worry about us

[Assassin]

I was just looking at the PL table and only 6 teams have scored less goals than us in away games

[Craig_H]

Agree totally with Exiled Red and Assassin's post there tells you the whole story.

Our negativity and cautious approach is especially evident in away games.

[Exiled_red]

I was just looking at the PL table and only 6 teams have scored less goals than us in away games

Our away record this season is poor. I think part of the reason is a lack of creativity and pace to play on the break.