Looking at long-term consistency...

[Vermilion]

I was just looking at the PL table and only 6 teams have scored less goals than us in away games

Maybe, but i'm sure our stats for the years under Benitez are very different as regards that, we have scored as many as most over the whole period before this season i'm sure.

This season will effect our stats terribly, but it's not a fair reflection on our long term performance under Rafa, and as a defensively set up side we don't do bad in the scoring stats over the whole period, this season has just been a disaster.....so far.

I know Craig inferred that the reason our goal tally is good is because we score lots against the cannon fodder, but do we ? And if we do, is it any different for utd or Arseanl or Chelsea ?.

[RedReet]

Maybe, but i'm sure our stats for the years under Benitez are very different as regards that, we have scored as many as most over the whole period before this season i'm sure.

This season will effect our stats terribly, but it's not a fair reflection on our long term performance under Rafa, and as a defensively set up side we don't do bad in the scoring stats over the whole period, this season has just been a disaster.....so far.

I know Craig inferred that the reason our goal tally is good is because we score lots against the cannon fodder, but do we ? And if we do, is it any different for utd or Arseanl or Chelsea ?.

Arsenal 4-4
Chelsea 4-4
Villa 5-0
Madrid 4-0
United 4-0

[Craig_H]

Arsenal 4-4
Chelsea 4-4
Villa 5-0
Madrid 4-0
United 4-0

And those are 5 games against big sides, that you've just picked at random, to form an 'average' ?

They're reflective of 'the norm' and we produce those kind of goal-rush results consistently, season in, season out, do we?

[RedReet]

And those are 5 games against big sides, that you've just picked at random, to form an 'average' ?

They're reflective of 'the norm' and we produce those kind of goal-rush results consistently, season in, season out, do we?

Eh???

[Craig_H]

Eh???

You've picked specific games against United, Chelsea, Madrid etc, where happen to have scored a bucketload, but that kind of goal haul against those sides isnt the norm, or an accurate reflection of what we achieved against them 'on average'.

I could easily pick out games against Arsenal where we've failed to score, or likewise against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

And the fact that we're discussing our total league goals, and you've selected the 4-4 against Chelsea and the 4-0 against Madrid (CL), kinda makes those two irrelevant in the contexts of this discussion.

[Taxi]

The problem with our consistency is not normally in the amount of goals we score or the amount of goals we concede, its in our inability to play against teams who also adopt negative tactics against us.

We are privileged in that we have the best partnership in the league, Gerrard and Torres. They produce enough magic moments to win us games, but we need that initial breakthrough to allow them to do their damage. If a team has a go at us we normally turn them over, if a side sits back and plays a tight pressure game we do not have the attacking creativity or resources to make the breakthrough. It could be Doncaster Rovers playing us, and if they put 11 men behind the ball we'd struggle.

This season there isn't any real pattern, we're dropping points all over the place, week to week. We haven't put any sort of respectable run together which is why any talk of winning the UEFA Cup is ludicrous at this stage, I'd say 8/1 or 9/1 at this stage. I certainly wouldn't risk my money on this lot.

Its an odd thing, but in one sense we must congratulate Rafa on last seasons finish, yet on the other hand I cannot help but think that another manager may have given us the extra couple of wins that would've won us the league in what was an uncharacteristically unimpressive Man Utd and Chelsea.

[Maxiedge]

I was taking a look back at our results earlier in the season and for some reason I'd completely forgotten about a few results. In particular:

Liverpool 4 - 0 Stoke

Bolton 2 - 3 Liverpool

Liverpool 4 - 0 Burnley

West Ham 2 - 3 Liverpool

Liverpool 6 - 1 Hull

The outstanding stat from all those results is Torres, 7 goals.

[Craig_H]

Stoke, Burnley and Hull were ones that particularly stuck in my memory, when i inferred that when we've got a high tally of goals scored, loads of them have come against ****e teams.

[fah-q]

Agree totally with Exiled Red and Assassin's post there tells you the whole story.

Our negativity and cautious approach is especially evident in away games.

I'd also agree but he should have used the word fewer rather than less.

[Assassin]

I'd also agree but he should have used the word fewer rather than less.

fah q

[fah-q]

Their their.

[RedReet]

You've picked specific games against United, Chelsea, Madrid etc, where happen to have scored a bucketload, but that kind of goal haul against those sides isnt the norm, or an accurate reflection of what we achieved against them 'on average'.

I could easily pick out games against Arsenal where we've failed to score, or likewise against Chelsea at Stamford Bridge.

And the fact that we're discussing our total league goals, and you've selected the 4-4 against Chelsea and the 4-0 against Madrid (CL), kinda makes those two irrelevant in the contexts of this discussion.

I picked the games that automatically sprung to mind. It doesn’t matter what our ‘average’ was against these teams. You said "Where we've scored a high number of goals in a season, i think there's been a case of games against fodder, who we've netted 4 or 5 against.’’. So considering that only really includes last season, and maybe the one before, I just looked at last season and these were the matches that we scored the most goals in (excluding Newcastle), and none of these teams are ‘fodder’ as you described.

I didn’t realise you were talking exclusively about the league. So the teams we scored 3 or more against were…

Spurs (8th)
West Ham (9th)
Newcastle (18th)
Hull (17th)
Blackburn (15th)
Portsmouth (14th)
Wigan (11th)
City (10th)

So the only teams we didn’t score 3 or more against who finished in the top 11 are Chelsea, Everton and Fulham, only 3 out of the top 10 teams.

[Vermilion]

Again!

Craig said in reply to my post about us matching our rivals goal scoring stats, that the reason our goal count is as good or near as, is because we tend to score lots against the smaller sides....but..

What we score against lesser sides, in relation to our goal tally being as good as our rivals, only matters if our rivals did'nt do the same, which i suspect they do.

It doesn't matter what the hell we score against minnows, because the Chavs and Scum etc will be doing the same.

[RedReet]

I know, I understood first time.

Without giving it much thought, i just wrote the 'big' teams that sprung to mind that we beat comfortably. I was then hit with a for doing so, so had to investigate further.

Anyway, I had stats, where's yours, eh?

[Vermilion]

I know, I understood first time.

Without giving it much thought, i just wrote the 'big' teams that sprung to mind that we beat comfortably. I was then hit with a for doing so, so had to investigate further.

Anyway, I had stats, where's yours, eh?

Sorry, wasn't directed at you.

Stats ? I don't do stats, apparently though, it's said you can prove anything with stats, i wonder, can we prove we won the league last season with some.....no i thought not..