Liverpool v Wigan Post Match

[Spanishfly]

I think we have at least 7 maybe 8 players that could win a league. The problem is they seem to play in the same positions and have to be left out.

[red g]

higher up the ouch You on an iPhone?

Yep haha!!!

[Maxiedge]

We also seem to have assmebled a squad of players who as individuals can play a blinder one week and then be absolute crass the next. You don't know who's going to turn up ...Jekyll or Hyde. Reina apart, there's no middle ground apart from Lucas, which brings us back to that same old argument.

[Craig_H]

Dont have the will or heart to go through it all again, but enough's enough for me.

Same old slow, no-urgency, pedestrian woeful football. Poor and negative mentality, rubbish quality football AND no results.

Our 4th place hopes are hanging by a tiny thin thread, and i dont think Rafa can keep them alive. He should go now IMO and Kenny can take over for the last 9 games, hoping giving a bit of fresh impetus and motivation.

Then look at it in the summer, when heaven and earth should be moved, to bring in JM. He'll be dismissed this summer, when Inter will have failed yet again to win the CL.

Ginsoak will still be at United, so that position wont be available. As things stand, i still think he'd choose us over City and the lack of money wouldnt turn him away IMO, as a man of his ego would still think he could succeed.

This summer will be the only realistic chance of getting him in the foreseeable future, and he'd turn us around within 2 seasons max, i'm convinced.

[-V-]

Dont have the will or heart to go through it all again, but enough's enough for me.

Same old slow, no-urgency, pedestrian woeful football. Poor and negative mentality, rubbish quality football AND no results.

Our 4th place hopes are hanging by a tiny thin thread, and i dont think Rafa can keep them alive. He should go now IMO and Kenny can take over for the last 9 games, hoping giving a bit of fresh impetus and motivation.

Then look at it in the summer, when heaven and earth should be moved, to bring in JM. He'll be dismissed this summer, when Inter will have failed yet again to win the CL.

Ginsoak will still be at United, so that position wont be available. As things stand, i still think he'd choose us over City and the lack of money wouldnt turn him away IMO, as a man of his ego would still think he could succeed.

This summer will be the only realistic chance of getting him in the foreseeable future, and he'd turn us around within 2 seasons max, i'm convinced.

Completely agree. Any anti-mourinho sentiment is gone from me now, if he's willing id take him. Anything for a league title

[Kenneth]

Would happily take him, but I actually don't think he'd come without something concrete being done on ownership. Hodgeson for me if we can't get Mourinho.

[SimonNo7]

Why single Kuyt out? At least he works hard and has actually played well at times this season. Gerrard, on the other hand, offers nothing game in, game out, but keeps getting picked. Any player with a lesser reputation would have been benched weeks ago.

Because the post I replied to was quoting Rafa who said, 'working hard but no game intelligence' and this sums up Kuyt for me. He runs up and down the pitch racking up the miles but when it comes to control, passing, running past players, creating he really does not offer anything, in my opinion.

For me I would much rather see Kuyt playing up front alongside Torres and be the poaching kind of striker because for all his faults (in my opinion again) he does seem to be in the right place at the right time for a lot of his goals.

As for Gerrard I agree he has been appalling for most of the season and perhaps being on the bench for a couple of games would do his ego some good but then again he is the kind of player who can change a game where as Kuyt isn't.

[darkstar]

Enough is enough but I am appalled by most of our players - cowardly, gutless glory boys who only apply themselves properly when the sun is shining on their arses.

I think the rot set in after the first game. A season of so much promise went tits up at Spurs and they lost heart. There's no excuse for that. Teams have won the title having lost the first game but I'm convinced the rot set in there.

It is not black and white and Rafa is not 100% to blame. He's accountable cos he's the manager and he has to go, but I'd sell the majority of these ****houses too. Their attitude is ****ing disgraceful.

[badpiggy]

They wanted to play for this 'negative' manager last season when it was all hunky dory and we were the league's top scorers. So what's ****ing changed?

Enough is enough but I am appalled by most of our players - cowardly, gutless glory boys who only apply themselves properly when the sun is shining on their arses.

I think the rot set in after the first game. A season of so much promise went tits up at Spurs and they lost heart. There's no excuse for that. Teams have won the title having lost the first game but I'm convinced the rot set in there.

It is not black and white and Rafa is not 100% to blame. He's accountable cos he's the manager and he has to go, but I'd sell the majority of these ****houses too. Their attitude is ****ing disgraceful.

have had to think about this for a while. basically how much that's wrong is rafa and how much is the players?

i just don't think the players are to blame as much as the manager.

rafa bought them, coaches them every day, analyses all their physio etc stats each week to decide who is at the right "level" to play. he analyses the oppostiton in the sort of detail normally associated with the autistic and sets up the team accordingly.

the team that went out against wigan last night was a rafa team through and through and they did what they were supposed to do. badly. they were positionally disciplined in attack, they supported each other in defence. the majority are functional - through no fault of their own - good engine types who have zero spark, imagination or creativity. not their fault - every team needs a kuyt or a lucas or a masher in some position. someone to be relied on to track back, run endlessly, be an outlet etc. we just have too many of them in a league that is primarily based on this type of player.

we do not play a system based on passing and movement and that is not the players' fault either. every time we have played badly under rafa the faults we saw last night have been there. they never change - rigid tactics, rigid attacking positioning, players who have had a few good games dropped only to have to come on with 8 minutes left - no ****in pressure on babel there is there?( right i didn't think you were up to playing in this game but you have 8 minutes to win it for us but i'll probably sell you anyway) and despite that he did more in his first couple of minutes on the pitch than anyone else the entire match - a total inability to string passes together and move the oppostion around - they know we're staying put so all they have to do is face us and pick off lame passes going across them.

yeah - rafa not the players for me. someone else could get more out of them at this stage.

[red g]

have had to think about this for a while. basically how much that's wrong is rafa and how much is the players?

i just don't think the players are to blame as much as the manager.

rafa bought them, coaches them every day, analyses all their physio etc stats each week to decide who is at the right "level" to play. he analyses the oppostiton in the sort of detail normally associated with the autistic and sets up the team accordingly.

the team that went out against wigan last night was a rafa team through and through and they did what they were supposed to do. badly. they were positionally disciplined in attack, they supported each other in defence. the majority are functional - through no fault of their own - good engine types who have zero spark, imagination or creativity. not their fault - every team needs a kuyt or a lucas or a masher in some position. someone to be relied on to track back, run endlessly, be an outlet etc. we just have too many of them in a league that is primarily based on this type of player.

we do not play a system based on passing and movement and that is not the players' fault either. every time we have played badly under rafa the faults we saw last night have been there. they never change - rigid tactics, rigid attacking positioning, players who have had a few good games dropped only to have to come on with 8 minutes left - no ****in pressure on babel there is there?( right i didn't think you were up to playing in this game but you have 8 minutes to win it for us but i'll probably sell you anyway) and despite that he did more in his first couple of minutes on the pitch than anyone else the entire match - a total inability to string passes together and move the oppostion around - they know we're staying put so all they have to do is face us and pick off lame passes going across them.

yeah - rafa not the players for me. someone else could get more out of them at this stage.

last night rafa made stevie play too deep, our best DM play at RB probably becuase he was worried about Charles ****ing zogbia.

He even admitted playing Lucas instead of Aquiliani becuase there is to much riding on games!!!! FFS!!!

His idea was to scrape 1 nils to the end of the season, get ****ing real that was never going to happen.

Not going to Wigan and trying to rip them a new arsehole is beyond stupid!

You saw in the last twenty minutes we got attakcing intent.......when attacking players came on the pitch, weird that.

City, Arsenal and Wigan we went out to nick a win and got 1pt out of 9. Pretty sure if we would have attacked them we would have got more than 1pt.

[the rev leeroy brown]

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...011862,00.html

at least one player in the team has a good attitude. thats the way babel.

[PTP]

have had to think about this for a while. basically how much that's wrong is rafa and how much is the players?

i just don't think the players are to blame as much as the manager.

rafa bought them, coaches them every day, analyses all their physio etc stats each week to decide who is at the right "level" to play. he analyses the oppostiton in the sort of detail normally associated with the autistic and sets up the team accordingly.

the team that went out against wigan last night was a rafa team through and through and they did what they were supposed to do. badly. they were positionally disciplined in attack, they supported each other in defence. the majority are functional - through no fault of their own - good engine types who have zero spark, imagination or creativity. not their fault - every team needs a kuyt or a lucas or a masher in some position. someone to be relied on to track back, run endlessly, be an outlet etc. we just have too many of them in a league that is primarily based on this type of player.

we do not play a system based on passing and movement and that is not the players' fault either. every time we have played badly under rafa the faults we saw last night have been there. they never change - rigid tactics, rigid attacking positioning, players who have had a few good games dropped only to have to come on with 8 minutes left - no ****in pressure on babel there is there?( right i didn't think you were up to playing in this game but you have 8 minutes to win it for us but i'll probably sell you anyway) and despite that he did more in his first couple of minutes on the pitch than anyone else the entire match - a total inability to string passes together and move the oppostion around - they know we're staying put so all they have to do is face us and pick off lame passes going across them.

yeah - rafa not the players for me. someone else could get more out of them at this stage.

good post - as mentioned in another thread - there is no one thing to blame - it's a mixture of everything - the players/managemen/coaches/owners etc -

The last bit bold is vital though - We are right now as it stands......****ED! We can't ship all the players out and bring a whole new squad in time for portsmouth next week - what we can do is sack the manager, bring someone in short term and hope that it gives the players we are stuck with enough of a breath of fresh air to pull their fingers and put 9 performances in between now and the end of the season that might with a bit of luck rescue 4th

it's extreme, it's harsh but whats the worse that could happen - we sack rafa, bring in say kenny short term and we continue to play ****e and finish 7th. Which is going to happen anyway - why not gamble, give sya dalgliesh the caretaker role and maybe just maybe some of the players might put some effort in

[badpiggy]

last night rafa made stevie play too deep, our best DM play at RB probably becuase he was worried about Charles ****ing zogbia.

He even admitted playing Lucas instead of Aquiliani becuase there is to much riding on games!!!! FFS!!!

His idea was to scrape 1 nils to the end of the season, get ****ing real that was never going to happen.

Not going to Wigan and trying to rip them a new arsehole is beyond stupid!

You saw in the last twenty minutes we got attakcing intent.......when attacking players came on the pitch, weird that.

City, Arsenal and Wigan we went out to nick a win and got 1pt out of 9. Pretty sure if we would have attacked them we would have got more than 1pt.

hah - but the insanely cunning nzogbia decided to go - or his evil genius puppeteer martinez just sent him - down our left instead. who could have imagined that would happen?! it's football madness run riot!!! straight out of left field! how can anyone counteract that type of outside the box thinking??!!!

and this is not directed at you red g but i am ****in sick to the hind bollock of defensive midfielders and us. no more. i'd prefer 4 ****in wingers - 2 left and 2 right to be our midfield* at this stage rather than face any more analysis of lucas and mascherano's strengths and weaknesses "from deep lying positions".
















*obviously not

[MrMichael]

Just seen Rafa's interview... have to say I feel sorry for the man... he just seemed absolutely devastated looked on the verge of tears to me.

Personally think his time is up but still feel gutted. He gave us some great memories and is such a decent man, such a shame to see it end like this.

Yep

Of course he's a good manager, and I'd still remember him fondly. I firmly believe he was doing a good job - until this season. But he's out of answers now, we need to start again.

[red g]

A first defeat to Wigan at the DW Stadium was their ninth of the season and left the side in real danger of failing to make the top four in the Premier League.

The Reds remain sixth, a point behind current fourth-placed incumbents Tottenham but having played more matches than any of their rivals.

However, what is of more immediate concern to Benitez is the manner of the performance in which virtually the entire side were abject in their ability to pass the ball or compete against committed opponents.

The Spaniard was at a loss to explain just why his side were so bad during the first half against the Latics but has told his squad they cannot afford to reproduce such ineptitude.

Benitez insists Liverpool can still qualify for the Champions League but it is going to take an impressive run of results - they have to play Manchester United away and Chelsea at home in their remaining nine matches - to change their fortunes.

"It depends on us. If we don't show we can beat teams then at the end it will be the same [as the Wigan result]," he said.

"When you lose you have to be disappointed but the way you lose is sometimes more important and in the first half we were just not good enough.

"I was surprised. I don't know, really I don't. I cannot understand it.

"We couldn't afford a performance like that before and we cannot now."

Liverpool went downhill from the moment striker Fernando Torres volleyed against the outside of the post in the eighth minute.

But even despite their difficulties the Spain international, who has 13 Premier League goals this season, still had a further four decent chances and a player of his quality would have expected to have taken one of them.

Benitez, however, did not lay all the blame at the club record signing's feet.

"Sometimes he is the difference," said the Liverpool boss, who said the only positive to come from the game was right-back Glen Johnson's substitute appearance after more than two months out with a knee injury.

"Yesterday we had two or three chances but you cannot score if you do not win the ball, or give the ball away, and if you do not win the second ball you cannot create chances.

"If we don't change what we did in the first half we will have problems but in terms of the ideas and the quality I think we have enough offensive players on the pitch."

Liverpool now face a testing trip to Lille for Thursday's Europa League last-16 tie, in which Benitez admits they cannot afford a defeat.

"We have to do it (against Lille) and I believe in the players," he added.

His belief may be mis-placed as forward Ryan Babel, one of the players who has been infuriating in his consistency since his £11million arrival from Ajax in July 2007, admitted confidence is fragile.

"We still have hope and faith that we can get fourth place," said the Holland international.

"It will be harder in every game. It was going to be difficult even before this game.

"We needed to get three points and that's why the disappointment is so big that we failed.

"It is disappointing that we can't create a kind of confidence with winning games.

"One defeat seems to spoil all the confidence that we have and then we have to start again.

"We have made it a little difficult for ourselves."

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_6012082,00.html