Why is our away form so bad?

[Craig_H]

It was Rafa's third year in charge and we went on to the final of the CL. We beat Barca away, Chelsea away etc ... Whilst it was probably still our weak point, we still finished third. But we got much better after that. It's been a steady progress in the league with Rafa, yes it's gone bad this year but there are glaring explanations for that, which you fail to acknowledge.

We're obviously talking about the league here.

And it was indeed a very weak point.

On what basis is only 6 away wins 'excellent' ?

Do you now admit that you were wrong to suggest that, aside from his first season, our away record has been excellent?

[Guest]

By the way fredo, our 'excellent' away campaign of 2006-2007 compares to others, as follows:

Liverpool - 22 points (P19 W6 D4 L9)

Man Utd - 42
Chelsea - 40
Arsenal - 26
Spurs - 21
Everton - 21
Bolton - 24
Reading - 20
Portsmouth 16
Blackburn - 22
Villa - 21
Boro - 13
Newcastle - 15
Man City - 21
West Ham - 15
Fulham - 11
Wigan - 19
Sheff United - 11
Charlton - 8
Watford - 10


That's your idea of 'excellent', is it?

No obviously not. We were excellent last season and the season before. Rafa sorted out this away form malarkey for it to come back this season. Thing is, you guys think the old Liverpool teams were a kind of all conquering team away from home back in the days, whilst they were excellent, they hardly played the most enterprising and attacking of football, barring season 1987-88.

[Craig_H]

This is the shots on goal statistic for our away games since December. These are obtained from soccernet.com

Wigan 0
Man City 1
Arsenal 4
Wolves 1
Stoke 1
Villa 4
Portsmouth 1
Blackburn 2

14 shots on goal in away games in the PL since December. The opposition may as well not have a goalkeeper and play an extra man in attack.

We are slow, no urgency in build up. No enthusiasm to get the ball into the box. Even if we move the ball to the opposition half had any striker in the box to convert them.

Our DM are pulled out of place to cover Insua. Our strikers are pulled out of place to cover the DM. Our defenders seem unable to handle anything which comes high, or someone with even moderate amount of flair and pace and the ability to do something remotely threatening.

Or away is so awful because we have showed no desire to win. 14 shots on goal in 8 games is just that.

That's such a diabolical stat. 14 attempts on target in 8 games. Not even averaging 2 per game. Disgraceful. And it highlights what a useless pile of negativity we are away from home. ****ing embarrassing.

Away games at Stoke, Wolves and Pompey - and we can only manage one shot on target in each of those games. That's truly shameful.

[Craig_H]

No obviously not. We were excellent last season and the season before. Rafa sorted out this away form malarkey for it to come back this season. Thing is, you guys think the old Liverpool teams were a kind of all conquering team away from home back in the days, whilst they were excellent, they hardly played the most enterprising and attacking of football, barring season 1987-88.

Nobody gives a ****, if the points tally is there. We play **** football and dont get results. Neither of them is there.

You see now, that rafa's away record has been poor in more than just his first season.

Quite how you can compare the 1988 side with the one we have now, is beyond me.

Players like Rush, Barnes, Beardsley etc. They played some delightful attacking football. As it is now, we have Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun, by way of example. The difference? Look who's in the dugout now, compared to then. Kenny v Rafa. No contest.

[Guest]

Nobody gives a ****, if the points tally is there. We play **** football and dont get results. Neither of them is there.

You see now, that rafa's away record has been poor in more than just his first season.

Quite how you can compare the 1988 side with the one we have now, is beyond me.

Players like Rush, Barnes, Beardsley etc. They played some delightful attacking football. As it is now, we have Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun, by way of example. The difference? Look who's in the dugout now, compared to then. Kenny v Rafa. No contest.

Different eras, different times, you can't compare. I wouldn't like Dalglish as manager as I think he was average and bought some **** when he was at Newcastle.

[Will]

Nobody gives a ****, if the points tally is there. We play **** football and dont get results. Neither of them is there.

You see now, that rafa's away record has been poor in more than just his first season.

Quite how you can compare the 1988 side with the one we have now, is beyond me.

Players like Rush, Barnes, Beardsley etc. They played some delightful attacking football. As it is now, we have Gerrard, Torres and Benayoun, by way of example. The difference? Look who's in the dugout now, compared to then. Kenny v Rafa. No contest.

I think it has more to do with Houghton on the right wing and Mcmahon and Jan Molby in the middle of the park. Rather than who is in the dugout. What we would give to have big Jan right now! He is one player we are crying out for.

[Craig_H]

Different eras, different times, you can't compare. I wouldn't like Dalglish as manager as I think he was average and bought some **** when he was at Newcastle.

You're the one who brought up the comparison

Night mate.

[Guest]

You're the one who brought up the comparison

Night mate.

I referred to old teams of the past, not necessarily Dalglish's teams. You're one ****ing sicko mate.

[Exiled_red]

This is the shots on goal statistic for our away games since December. These are obtained from soccernet.com

Wigan 0
Man City 1
Arsenal 4
Wolves 1
Stoke 1
Villa 4
Portsmouth 1
Blackburn 2

14 shots on goal in away games in the PL since December. The opposition may as well not have a goalkeeper and play an extra man in attack.

I think those stats are slightly misleading I think to comment on attacking performance you are better looking at total number of shots in that time, as attacking ability and shooting accuracy are two different issues.

Total shots, (on target) symbols compare shots to home team (+ more, - less, = equal) which indicates to some extent whether the game was open or tight rather than how well we were playing.

Wigan 13(0) =
Man City 7(1) +
Arsenal 10(4) -
Wolves 8(1) +
Stoke 8(1) -
Villa 15(4) +
Portsmouth 8(1) -
Blackburn 15(2) +

Total of 84 shots (or 10.5 per game), 14 on target 16.6% accuracy (ie % of shots on target), It seems a typical value for this would be between between 40% and 50%. Our average for the season is 44% according to: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...705370,00.html

In only 3 of those games have the opposition had more shots than us (Arsenal by 1, Stoke by 2, and oddly Portsmouth by 7).

Ok this analysis marks out all shots be they real chances or pot shots from distance.

[peekay]

I think those stats are slightly misleading I think to comment on attacking performance you are better looking at total number of shots in that time, as attacking ability and shooting accuracy are two different issues.

Total shots, (on target) symbols compare shots to home team (+ more, - less, = equal) which indicates to some extent whether the game was open or tight rather than how well we were playing.

Wigan 13(0) =
Man City 7(1) +
Arsenal 10(4) -
Wolves 8(1) +
Stoke 8(1) -
Villa 15(4) +
Portsmouth 8(1) -
Blackburn 15(2) +

Total of 84 shots (or 10.5 per game), 14 on target 16.6% accuracy (ie % of shots on target), It seems a typical value for this would be between between 40% and 50%. Our average for the season is 44% according to: http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...705370,00.html

In only 3 of those games have the opposition had more shots than us (Arsenal by 1, Stoke by 2, and oddly Portsmouth by 7).

Ok this analysis marks out all shots be they real chances or pot shots from distance.

But I think your stats only further highlight our weakness, mate. It is very easy to play Liverpool away. Defend in numbers. Most probably we will slowly pass around and occasionally Mascher and others will take pot shots from 40 yards, which wont trouble their goalkeeper. Then attack in pace or set piece. Game over.

The poor ratio of shots on goal to the total shots only reflect our lack of inventiveness.

[the rev leeroy brown]

away form is dreadful but regardless of results so is our home form. we play ****ty football with negative tactics. thats why we are so bad.

[RedSpartan]

I think it has more to do with playing 5 across the midfield, one up front...nearly every single time.....Rafa uses the same tactics for the small teams away as he does for the big clashes.

I would prefer to see our tactics make the other team worry about us rather than us worrying about them. We always seem to be inviting pressure on ourselves.

[Kinell]

i think in Rafa's tenure we have only had 1 good season away from home and that was last year.

it also took rafa 4 years to register a victory at one of the top 4 as well i think.

although we do seem to be able to beat Scum with regular ease which is nice

We're becoming Man City pre-arabs!

[Exiled_red]

But I think your stats only further highlight our weakness, mate. It is very easy to play Liverpool away. Defend in numbers. Most probably we will slowly pass around and occasionally Mascher and others will take pot shots from 40 yards, which wont trouble their goalkeeper. Then attack in pace or set piece. Game over.

The poor ratio of shots on goal to the total shots only reflect our lack of inventiveness.

It's difficult to judge, you really need to know how many of those shots were pot shots from long range and how many were real chances. I was attempting to negate clear cut chances which were missed.

Take the Wigan game the other night Torres had a couple of decent chances (one that hit the post, and the overhead kick) both were real chances that were created, which could have resulted in goals, these were not counted if you only include 'shots on target'. Equally in the same game Gerrard(?) had a frustrated fairly long range shot which went well wide which wasn't a real chance but is counted in 'all shots'.

I thought that showing both is the fairest way of judging as the truth probably lies somewhere between the two

[Exiled_red]

I think it has more to do with playing 5 across the midfield, one up front...nearly every single time.....Rafa uses the same tactics for the small teams away as he does for the big clashes.

I would prefer to see our tactics make the other team worry about us rather than us worrying about them. We always seem to be inviting pressure on ourselves.

I agree with most of that, but this is partly my point, we play negative football with 5 across midfield in all games, this approach is surely more suited to away games than home games, yet adopting this approach at home our form (results-wise) is good, where as away from home it's dire.