Lille post-mortem

[Shanks]

It's not about MAKING US LOSE but more about NOT MOTIVATING US TO WIN.

It's easier for a manager to do it this way.

Stevie and Carra must see the line ups and tactics in the dressing room and think WTF, F**k this..

[Craig_H]

So you wouldn't have pride Craig, I mean the players don't have pride and self respect to do something about it, as clearly they've got the talent? They don't need a manager to tell them what to do on a football pitch especially when the chips are down, they've been playing football all their lives no?

It goes beyond that fredo, when you've lost all heart and desire, lost all hope and belief and just dont think there's any point anymore, because you believe so strongly that success is impossible, pride comes a distant second place.

And if they genuinely believe they cant succeed under rafa, they will think that failure is imminent, regardless. And that in itself, wouldnt be anything to be proud of.

And once again, comparing it to how I would be, or how you'd be, is irrelvent, we're fans, footballers arent.

[Parr_Zee]

Who are you? His friggin mum? O Neill is a decent manager, but lots of people on here dont think he's the messiah. Deal with it

Excuse me but this is a forum where people give their opinions and people agree/disagree and then debate. If everyone just dealt with what anyone else said, it would be a pretty boring forum. Deal with that. Fact.

[Kronenburg1892]

Right, so what's changed since last season?

[Guest]

It's not about MAKING US LOSE but more about NOT MOTIVATING US TO WIN.

It's easier for a manager to do it this way.

Stevie and Carra must see the line ups and tactics in the dressing room and think WTF, F**k this..

That's all assumptions though.

It goes beyond that fredo, when you've lost all heart and desire, lost all hope and belief and just dont think there's any point anymore, because you believe so strongly that success is impossible, pride comes a distant second place.

And if they genuinely believe they cant succeed under rafa, they will think that failure is imminent, regardless. And that in itself, wouldnt be anything to be proud of.

And once again, comparing it to how I would be, or how you'd be, is irrelvent, we're fans, footballers arent.

I don't know, the same thing happened with Houllier and it's happening all over again. I'd sell Gerrard and let Carra go, they've got too much influence and it's detrimental to the manager, whoever is in charge next season.

[carheex]

Rafa has lost the players, they dont want to play for him,

Please Rafa go, thanks for the memories but nothing is working anymore

That doesn't make sense. WHY wouldn't they want to play for him anymore? It is their performances that has put the club where it is - THEY are responsible for their performances and should play for the club, regardless of who the manager is.
Yes, Rafa is underperforming as a manager but the majority of the blame lies with the individual players. They should all be ashamed of themselves for their "efforts" this season.

[Shanks]

Right, so what's changed since last season?

We lost Stevie's best mate.

[Craig_H]

Right, so what's changed since last season?

You'll drive yourself insane asking that question.

I think chris summed it up well a little further up the page. Hope, motivation and positivity has been sucked out of the management, players and staff, ever since it became clear that we wouldnt have a budget, and wouldnt be able to spend excess funds generated by sales.

The manager hasnt helped with some very poor decisions, systems, mentalities and selections. The players have let it drag them down and along with their loss of faith in Rafa, due to those poor decisions, strange selections etc (IMO), this has impacted dreadfully on their performance levels and motivation levels.

[Craig_H]

That's all assumptions though.



I don't know, the same thing happened with Houllier and it's happening all over again. I'd sell Gerrard and let Carra go, they've got too much influence and it's detrimental to the manager, whoever is in charge next season.

Same thing happened with GH because he too lost the ability to make the team perform and made bizarre decisions, implemented dire mindsets and sucked the belief out of them. Same things happening now and like when it happened to GH, the only way out of it is a change of direction.

[Lecter]

It goes beyond that fredo, when you've lost all heart and desire, lost all hope and belief and just dont think there's any point anymore, because you believe so strongly that success is impossible, pride comes a distant second place.

And if they genuinely believe they cant succeed under rafa, they will think that failure is imminent, regardless. And that in itself, wouldnt be anything to be proud of.

And once again, comparing it to how I would be, or how you'd be, is irrelvent, we're fans, footballers arent.

You know what though you could also apply the whole of your above point to the owners also

Reina has alluded to this in the past

As I said yesterday no amibition, direction from the top is a demotivating as any manager could be

You often get companies with financial difficulties having demotivated staff because nobody knows where they stand

[Kronenburg1892]

You'll drive yourself insane asking that question.

I think chris summed it up well a little further up the page. Hope, motivation and positivity has been sucked out of the management, players and staff, ever since it became clear that we wouldnt have a budget, and wouldnt be able to spend excess funds generated by sales.

The manager hasnt helped with some very poor decisions, systems, mentalities and selections. The players have let it drag them down and along with their loss of faith in Rafa, due to those poor decisions, strange selections etc (IMO), this has impacted dreadfully on their performance levels and motivation levels.

Yeah, I completely agree. So what would be the best solution for the club? And what would be the way to force that issue? Would not qualifying for champions league force RBS's hand to dictate that the owners have to sell to the highest bidder, even if it does fall below their estimate? If the owners are stubborn enough, they'll sell off key assets, ie players, to make the loan repayments. And what will you, as fan, think about that then?

[Craig_H]

That doesn't make sense. WHY wouldn't they want to play for him anymore? It is their performances that has put the club where it is - THEY are responsible for their performances and should play for the club, regardless of who the manager is.
Yes, Rafa is underperforming as a manager but the majority of the blame lies with the individual players. They should all be ashamed of themselves for their "efforts" this season.

Maybe they dont think his style or methods brings the best out of them. Maybe they want to play differently, maybe they want to see different players signed and used. Maybe they dont enjoy training anymore, maybe the atmosphere around work is negative and they dont like being there and working under him.

It can be any number of things.

[Guest]

Same thing happened with GH because he too lost the ability to make the team perform and made bizarre decisions, implemented dire mindsets and sucked the belief out of them. Same things happening now and like when it happened to GH, the only way out of it is a change of direction.

Yes I think it's all finished now, Rafa ain't going to salvage anything from this utter shambles of a football team. I'd like Gerrard, Carra and a few others to close the door and go in his midst though, Gerrard being the first. His attitude sucked lately and as a team captain that is totally out of order.

[Craig_H]

You know what though you could also apply the whole of your above point to the owners also

Reina has alluded to this in the past

As I said yesterday no amibition, direction from the top is a demotivating as any manager could be

You often get companies with financial difficulties having demotivated staff because nobody knows where they stand

That's all true, but the fact is, the players arent engaging in daily interaction with the owners.

This goes back again to what i said before mate - you seem keen to dismiss the Rafa impact and put it ALL on the owners. In this case, with regards to the motivational impact on the players.

[Craig_H]

Yeah, I completely agree. So what would be the best solution for the club? And what would be the way to force that issue? Would not qualifying for champions league force RBS's hand to dictate that the owners have to sell to the highest bidder, even if it does fall below their estimate? If the owners are stubborn enough, they'll sell off key assets, ie players, to make the loan repayments. And what will you, as fan, think about that then?

Long term, the owners have to go.

Short term, the playing/management side of things needs a new direction and some fresh ideas, so rafa needs to go. I dont like saying it, but the simple scenario now, is that all evidence says rafa can no longer make our team play to their capability, or anywhere near it.

I've said all along, if i knew it was only one season out of the CL, i'd grudgingly accept it, if it meant G&H ****ed off. I still feel that way.

I dont think the security of the club as a going concern is in doubt, because there'll always be willing buyers if RBS effectively repossess the club from under the yanks noses. I hope the £100m investment isnt found and i hope this ****s them up big time, to the point where they have no other option but to release the club.

My only fear with that, is they'll try to find the money in other ways, by selling people like Torres, Mascherano and Reina. The players could simply reject a move, but i dont want to be in the situation where we're relying on that.