Does Rafa deserve one last throw of the dice?

[Shanks]

Installing belief and motivating a team are what top managers do. The fact that this is mostly the same squad as last season is more the reason to question Rafa.

Totally agree. It hasn't helped though with injuries to Johnson and Torres.

In an ideal world, we would have world class replacements.

Not replacing quality back up for Torres has been our biggest mistake this season and not the fact that we lost Alonso..

[Taxi]

Totally agree. It hasn't helped though with injuries to Johnson and Torres.

In an ideal world, we would have world class replacements.

Not replacing quality back up for Torres has been our biggest mistake this season and not the fact that we lost Alonso..

Lucas/Mascher are just not creative so I think losing Alonso hit us very hard, but yes having no backup to Torres is another huge factor.

The fact of the matter is that no decent striker will come to us and sit on the bench whilst Rafa persists in playing 1 striker. Even when he's had the money to buy a striker, he hasn't done so and its probably because since Torres arrived nobody wants to come. Keane was reportedly not his decision, he's just spent the best part of £40m on Glen and Aqua, I'm sure he would've gone for a striker given the chance but all of his top targets probably said feck off and get some other mug to warm your bench.

[red g]

Lucas/Mascher are just not creative so I think losing Alonso hit us very hard, but yes having no backup to Torres is another huge factor.

The fact of the matter is that no decent striker will come to us and sit on the bench whilst Rafa persists in playing 1 striker. Even when he's had the money to buy a striker, he hasn't done so and its probably because since Torres arrived nobody wants to come. Keane was reportedly not his decision, he's just spent the best part of £40m on Glen and Aqua, I'm sure he would've gone for a striker given the chance but all of his top targets probably said feck off and get some other mug to warm your bench.

i thought it was an initial 5.6million ion Aqualiani and johnson was about 10million becuase of what pompey owed us?

and am pretty sure we were looking at getting a striker in until monies disappeared in the summer that we were allegedly promised?

[Taxi]

i thought it was an initial 5.6million ion Aqualiani and johnson was about 10million becuase of what pompey owed us?

and am pretty sure we were looking at getting a striker in until monies disappeared in the summer that we were allegedly promised?

I think most deals these days are initial outlays followed by several payments. I read recently that the Aquilani deal completes in full around June or July. The Johnson deal was money owed yes, so £20m (Aqualani) + the difference of outlay against owed with Pompey.

[dww]

I think most deals these days are initial outlays followed by several payments. I read recently that the Aquilani deal completes in full around June or July. The Johnson deal was money owed yes, so £20m (Aqualani) + the difference of outlay against owed with Pompey.

I think the total of the Aquilani deal is well below £20m and a significant proportion depends on us getting into the CL etc.

[saveferris]

I think Rafa does derserve another year. On the pitch things have been bad, and this is a combination of bad play, a lack of motivation, mistakes and a lack of form at different times for various players.

Sure we have had injuries this season but the greater issue is the slow return to form of players after they return from either injury or a period of bad form (ie Mascherano). One of the reasons Kuyt and Lucas have been noticed is that they have played pretty consistently over the year but how many other players with the exception of Reina could you say that about?? As for Aquilani, he should be given the one year season of settling into the Premier League that others are afforded.

In defence players have made many individual mistakes this year more often than not this has resulted in goals against us (eg last weekend, Lyon away, Fiorentina at home, Chelsea away) another factor is the ever changing back line. I would go as far as to say we have missed Arbeloa, due to this reason; just as much as we have missed Alonso. We have also had some real screamers scored against us, Assou-Ekotto and Cameron Jerome's goals come to mind.

My thoughts on motvation are that as soon as players get on the pitch if they play rubbish it is the players own fault. Poor performances cant be blamed on the manager, however this does mean the manager needs to change stuff, if he doest then some of the blame must rest with him. However all this negativity and we are still in a shout for 4th.

It is away from the first team squad where we will suffer though and Rafa is building up something good I feel. To the extent that he got rid of a very successful youth structure and look to improve it means improving our future. Removing Rafa would set us back on this front.

This season reminds me of Houllier's last in terms of results, but I would feel confident that without the number of injuries we have had this year coupled with fewer mistakes and freak incidents (beach ball, Sktrel and Carra head-butting each other) we would be in a stronger position. Maybe we should be looking at other off the field areas such as the medical and coaching areas?

[PTP]

i imagine the full details of the aquilani deal will come out when he gets bombed back to italy either this summer or next, when he goes big there for circa £8m-£10m - there will be a **** storm that we lost £12m on him until it's revealed that we had only paid around £10m and have not actuall made a loss on him

[Taxi]

i imagine the full details of the aquilani deal will come out when he gets bombed back to italy either this summer or next, when he goes big there for circa £8m-£10m - there will be a **** storm that we lost £12m on him until it's revealed that we had only paid around £10m and have not actuall made a loss on him

Roma already released the details, its £17m plus bonuses (of which there will be none).

[Imy]

Roma already released the details, its £17m plus bonuses (of which there will be none).

Thats probably why he's not playing, if he goes past 20 appearances we'll have to pay the full fee

[Taxi]

Thats probably why he's not playing, if he goes past 20 appearances we'll have to pay the full fee

you could be right

[dww]

I think Rafa does derserve another year. On the pitch things have been bad, and this is a combination of bad play, a lack of motivation, mistakes and a lack of form at different times for various players.

Sure we have had injuries this season but the greater issue is the slow return to form of players after they return from either injury or a period of bad form (ie Mascherano). One of the reasons Kuyt and Lucas have been noticed is that they have played pretty consistently over the year but how many other players with the exception of Reina could you say that about?? As for Aquilani, he should be given the one year season of settling into the Premier League that others are afforded.

While I tend to agree with you I do think that lack of motivation and the level of injuries do need to be explained. There are all sorts of possible explanations which would convince me that Rafa remained the right choice but unlike previously I have started to worry that something has gone too far now.

In defence players have made many individual mistakes this year more often than not this has resulted in goals against us (eg last weekend, Lyon away, Fiorentina at home, Chelsea away) another factor is the ever changing back line. I would go as far as to say we have missed Arbeloa, due to this reason; just as much as we have missed Alonso. We have also had some real screamers scored against us, Assou-Ekotto and Cameron Jerome's goals come to mind.

I think the loss of both Arbeloa and Hyypia from the squad has been under played. However having put considerable money on top of the money owed to Pompey for Johnson you have to say that Rafa had some funding to try and improve things. I accept he has been injured a lot but Johnson has been very poor defensively for us in my opinion.

A lot of the mistakes have been in my view down to poor defensive organisation and I think Rafa needs to take some of the blame for that. Although as has been seen with United in the past excellent defences sometimes just have periods where they don't gel.

My thoughts on motvation are that as soon as players get on the pitch if they play rubbish it is the players own fault. Poor performances cant be blamed on the manager, however this does mean the manager needs to change stuff, if he doest then some of the blame must rest with him. However all this negativity and we are still in a shout for 4th.

It is away from the first team squad where we will suffer though and Rafa is building up something good I feel. To the extent that he got rid of a very successful youth structure and look to improve it means improving our future. Removing Rafa would set us back on this front.

This season reminds me of Houllier's last in terms of results, but I would feel confident that without the number of injuries we have had this year coupled with fewer mistakes and freak incidents (beach ball, Sktrel and Carra head-butting each other) we would be in a stronger position. Maybe we should be looking at other off the field areas such as the medical and coaching areas?

[PTP]

Roma already released the details, its £17m plus bonuses (of which there will be none).

i seriously doubt we have paid £17m up front though - pretty much no top flight deal is paid in one go. What i was getting at is the deal may well have been for £17m, but when we come round to selling him, we would have only paid probably half that

[PTP]

Thats probably why he's not playing, if he goes past 20 appearances we'll have to pay the full fee

- this has happened before though, can't remember who but i remember someone not playing cause it would have been say his 50th appearance and triggered like £1m payment

[Taxi]

i seriously doubt we have paid £17m up front though - pretty much no top flight deal is paid in one go. What i was getting at is the deal may well have been for £17m, but when we come round to selling him, we would have only paid probably half that

Deal details:

The 20 million EURO transfer fee is broken up into the following:

- 4 cash instalments of
- - 5 million EURO upfront
- - 3 million EURO by 4th January 2010
- - 7 million EURO by June 30th 2010
- - 5 million EURO by June 30th 2011.

Further Add ons include:

- 300,000 EURO for every year Liverpool qualify for the Champions League from 2010/11 to 2014/15

- 250,000 EURO everytime the player reaches 35 appearancs, 70 appearances, 105 appeances and then 140 appearances.

- 1 million EURO the first time Liverpool either wins the Premier League or Champions League by 30 June 2014.

- 5% of any future transfer fee will be paid to Roma.



So on that basis, 15m euro's by the end of June.

[Resu]

- this has happened before though, can't remember who but i remember someone not playing cause it would have been say his 50th appearance and triggered like £1m payment

Wasn`t there some talk about this with Mascherano at West Ham?
Bu t when you look at the number of games he played it doesn`t really add up.