Sunday's ref

[Craig_H]

Who's talking about 'every single year' ffs?

And unlike you, nobody's making a definitive claim about anything being bent. We're just not narrow mindedly dismissing any possibility.

I wonder if there was a poster on a forum in Italy years ago, called La Birdman, who completely dismissed any notion of Serie A being bent...

[Chris]

My final point on this before I take Craig's advice and not read this anymore is the league must have been bent and corrupt for the past 20 years then, seeing as that's obviously the sole reason for us not winning it during that time.

Couldn't possibly be that we've had idiots in charge during all that time, appointed ****e managers, not backed the decent ones we had (Evans when he was stopped from bringing in Desaily and Sheringham to name 2), wasted massive amounts of money on poor players and not bothered about a bigger stadium or increased commercial revenue or even god ****ing forbid full time scouts until recently.

Nope, nothing to do with that, we've been cheated every single year.


# closes door on this thread behind him as he leaves the room

Love how you tell people to grow up then have a tantrum implying people have said "we've been cheated for 20 years" when we've said nothing of the sort.

[Slinky Skills]

Who's talking about 'every single year' ffs?

And unlike you, nobody's making a definitive claim about anything being bent. We're just not narrow mindedly dismissing any possibility.

I wonder if there was a poster on a forum in Italy years ago, called La Birdman, who completely dismissed any notion of Serie A being bent...

How do you get the time to post so much?

It's not a pop at you by the way I'm just asking.

[Craig_H]

When i'm being paid to work, i'm not always actually working.

[little dave hedgehog]

i'm actually fairly certain that in a cost-cutting measure this year, the club neglected to make it's large annual 'donation' to the referee's union.

i thought that back in august.

i still think it's true.

[Exiled_red]

i'm actually fairly certain that in a cost-cutting measure this year, the club neglected to make it's large annual 'donation' to the referee's union.

i thought that back in august.

i still think it's true.

[little dave hedgehog]

only half joking

[Redspin]

I'm talking about in general.

There has been many a time when a bad decision has gone in our favour but we never seem to slate the ref.

Whenever we lose at Old Trafford it seems to be the refs fault and if we win, then it's beacuse we were the better team.

People were talking about Webb in particular well before this game and about his habit of favouring Man U, citing his performances that greatly assisted Man U last season and predicting what might happen this time. Most people's fears were realised with startling accuracy

It is also a fact that we were much the better team when we won at Old Trafford last season. Perhaps, like Ferguson, you disagree and think Man U were the better team, unluckily losing 4-1.

Our fans regularly slate many of the current crop of referees even in games we win. Like discussing Webb's glaring weaknesses even before we played Man U, these points are raised constantly

[Redspin]

come on lads. masher is to blame as valencia basically conned him. we all know it. the ref will always let tangles like that go unless it becomes a foul. contact is allowed and its a mans's game right?

we've 'won' loads of important penalties. Stevie G's was a corker in istanbul for instance...

just let it go. we didnt lose the match because of one decision, we lost be cause we were utterly sh1te for HALF of the match.

I agree that this kind of sh1t is predictable tho. doesnt change what actually happened does it. masher was conned.

But Gerrard's penalty incident in Istanbul bore no resemblance to the incident on Sunday. He was inside the penalty area around the penalty spot and was tripped, so a definite penalty. Watch the DVD again if you think there was no contact and Gerrard "won" an undeserved penalty. If so, I suggest you get along to Specsavers pronto

Valencia was fouled outside the box, so no penalty. The "tangle" was the foul incident. Mascherano wasn't touching Valencia at all when he was in the area. I've seen it on the box all day long and it's clearly an incident outside the box, but Valencia "won" the penalty in the manner you shamefully - and wrongly - suggested Gerrard did in Istanbul

[Craig_H]

Mascherano let go of Valencia before he entered the box - even on MOTD they clearly highlighted that Valencia's standing foot hadnt even got into the box when Mascherano stops pulling him back.

Mascherano should've maybe allowed for the speed that the incident was going at, and let go sooner, to make it clear that he wasnt fouling him in the area.

That said, agent Webb would've found another way to give them a peno at some point, i'm sure. You literally have to not tackle Man Utd players in the box, to make sure there's no peno - and also hope the ball doesnt come within 3 yards of your arm/hand, otherwise there's a handball peno there too.

Webb's a ****ing disgrace.

[Slinky Skills]

When i'm being paid to work, i'm not always actually working.

That's a good enough answer!

[elrichio86]

With the benefit of a replay you can see it was just outside of the area. However in the heat of the moment it would have been very difficult to tell, plus the rules generally tend to be in favour of the attacker. It was a VERY difficult decision to get right so I can understand why it was given.

He's still a cunt mind

[barnes10]

But Gerrard's penalty incident in Istanbul bore no resemblance to the incident on Sunday. He was inside the penalty area around the penalty spot and was tripped, so a definite penalty. Watch the DVD again if you think there was no contact and Gerrard "won" an undeserved penalty. If so, I suggest you get along to Specsavers pronto

Valencia was fouled outside the box, so no penalty. The "tangle" was the foul incident. Mascherano wasn't touching Valencia at all when he was in the area. I've seen it on the box all day long and it's clearly an incident outside the box, but Valencia "won" the penalty in the manner you shamefully - and wrongly - suggested Gerrard did in Istanbul

dont disagree with any of that. i was just using gerrard in istanbul as an example. i do think he could have stayed up but he chose to go down as he was touched. contact or not, trip or not he made the most of it and 'confirm the foul' and win the pen. valencia faced the same when in the box so he went down to make the most of masher's pulling.

i know the letter of the law is that valencia was fouled outside the box. however in reality, when two players lock arms or tug shirts, refs allow it for a bit to see if they let go. to keep the game flowing. and this is the right thing to do.

if they dont and it becomes a foul, thats when a free is awarded. on sunday thats what i believe happened. it masher was intending to foul him, he should have taken his legs off outside the box. if not he should have just stayed goal side of him.

[Craig_H]

With the benefit of a replay you can see it was just outside of the area. However in the heat of the moment it would have been very difficult to tell, plus the rules generally tend to be in favour of the attacker. It was a VERY difficult decision to get right so I can understand why it was given.

He's still a cunt mind

That makes no sense.

You say you can see it was outside the area via a replay - fair enough, so we know it was outside.

You then say in the heat of the moment, it's hard to see whether it was inside or out - in which case, if the ref cant tell, he CANT give the penalty.

You can only give a peno if you're 100% sure and you cant be 100% sure of something that didnt happen.

[elrichio86]

Refs generally give the benefit of doubt to the attacker and I'm sure I've seen FA / UEFA / FIFA advice to that end.

I'm not saying I agree with it, its just thats the way most refs seem to think.