'Drastic change' needed to save Reds, says Steve Nicol

[Exiled_red]

Yeah, if you're including players sold. Which is of course totally and utterly nonsensical.

[shanks69]

i'd say he's spot on,i can't see anything wrong with what he's said.yes we have spent 200mil on players,yes we need players and investment and yes the lack of overall quality puts all the pressure on gerrard and torres.

[BobTheCharmer]

Get Nicol in as manager. August would then be worth looking forward to.

[vlahka]

If you ignore the whole swapping, selling etc, ignore how much money spent or made, the underlying thing here is that we have players that did cost 200+mill to bring here. I dont care if we sold 1 player for 100mill, the others still had a price point to bring them to the club. I dont see players with the quality in that squad to justify even half that amount.

[scully]

Also what those who argue that Rafa has balanced the books with sales ignore is the fact that he has bought and then quickly resold so many. It's partly a case of him and his scouts buying duds, but mostly a case of no matter who he buys there is no way we'll see the best of them as they are forced to play crap defensive football. If he bought Messi he'd be sold the following transfer window. Rafa has to go.

[barnes10]

Also what those who argue that Rafa has balanced the books with sales ignore is the fact that he has bought and then quickly resold so many. It's partly a case of him and his scouts buying duds, but mostly a case of no matter who he buys there is no way we'll see the best of them as they are forced to play crap defensive football. If he bought Messi he'd be sold the following transfer window. Rafa has to go.

who - that was a success - has he bought and sold quickly? surely he does this to prevent losing too much money. keane would be worth half what we got for him if we still had him.

scouting has just been overhauled this season. are we to have scouted, signed and played kids within 1 season?

[kingfunk]

by Nick Clemons | Monday, March 22nd, 2010
Tick Tick Tick…..

It may seem unfair for a manager’s future to hinge on a game away at Old Trafford and the result of this match alone hasn’t dictated Rafa’s future, but results this weekend including our defeat have now given us a slim chance at best of reaching the Champions League next season.

Even if you’re a fan of Rafa’s and still believe he’s the man to take Liverpool forward, I would get used to the fact that he won’t be here next season whoever is in charge in the boardroom. Hicks and Gillett, already having considered replacing him once, are unlikely to need much arm-twisting to remove him now as long as they can afford to do so. With the club seemingly going backwards and Rafa’s support waning, it wouldn’t be the hugely unpopular decision it would have been 2 years ago.

If new investors are found they will want a return on their investment and there is a fair chance that Rafa will not be trusted with substantial transfer funds in order to achieve this. Tactically sound he may have proven at times during the last 6 years but few could argue he is a magician in the transfer market.

The best outcome for all maybe is for Rafa to be finally given the chance to manage Real Madrid. This may mean he is offered a lucrative contract before being sacked and therefore doesn’t cost us a fortune in compensation. Whatever the order of events, a new manager after the World Cup but before the new season starts is becoming inevitable. Who that will be however is a much harder call. The current contenders are considered below:

Jose Mourinho (Current odds 9/4)

Certainly wouldn’t be welcomed by all after his numerous outbursts whilst at Stamford Bridge but you can’t question his ability nor his own confidence in this ability. Jose has previously expressed an interest in returning to England after Inter Milan and there probably wouldn’t be too many jobs he would consider apart from perhaps Anfield and the Theatre of Silence. However, with such a high reputation it’s hard to see him agreeing to such a move unless he was given reasonable funds to improve the squad and make a genuine challenge for the Premiership and Champions League.

Probability – Those odds seem way too short to me

Kenny Dalglish (Current odds 3/1)

I can only imagine he’s currently 2nd favourite on the basis that we might need a temporary manager if Benitez were to go before the end of the season. With the season drawing to a close and little to play for, this surely seems less of a likely option now. As my boyhood hero, I will always worship King Kenny but having not managed a team for over a decade he would be a very strange choice to turn round our fortunes in the long-term.

Probability – Odds should lengthen over the next few weeks

Alex Mcleish (Current odds 5/1)

Don’t fall of your chair, yes really Alex Mcleish is 3rd favourite to take over as our next manager. Okay so he did very well as manager of Rangers and has done a decent job at Birmingham but he’s hardly got the pedigree of a world class manager that we’d want. However, if there are no major boardroom changes and we’re still running the club on a shoestring this is probably the level of manager we’d go for. Cheaper to get than all the bigger names but hardly the inspiration that Torres and Gerrard might want to stay with us

Probability – Seems a very short price but that’s what worries me

Martin O’ Neill (Current odds 10/1)

Probably most people’s current choice if we went for a British manager. His experience in England is considerable and he has certainly been one of those who has often over-achieved in terms of results and league positions. However, with an American owner who appears to be more supportive and with a good largely English squad he has built, would he really want to walk away from that to a club that may well finish lower in the league this season. A big transfer kitty and the chance of restoring a huge club to former glories may convince him but it’s a long shot. If we get some new funds and can’t get Mourinho then perhaps he’s a decent alternative

Probability – The odds seem about right

Laurent Blanc (Current odds 10/1)

Surprisingly short price for a relatively inexperienced manager. However, he has done very well in France with Bordeaux to overthrow the all-dominating Lyon side of the last few years, but as I’m sure you’re already saying –that’s the French league. Personally I think he’d be an odd choice but as a World Cup winning captain with a decent managerial record so far, he’d probably attract more top class players than Mcleish

Probability – Unlikely

Mark Hughes (Current odds 12/1)

Built up a decent side at Blackburn with modest transfer funds available but hardly set the world alight with the millions available at Man City. In any event he was a Manc for 13 years over 2 separate periods and would hardly be a popular choice.

Probability – Surely not

Jurgen Klinsmann (Current odds 12/1)

Surely only so far up the list because of the initial approach a couple of years ago. He had a shocker at Bayern Munich, lasting only 9 months before being sacked. Though a talented player he has no club management pedigree at all. Let’s hope for our club’s sake that the owners have now dismissed him as a replacement for Rafa.

Probability – Remote, I pray

Gus Hiddink (Current odds 16/1)

Great experience with proven track record but having just agreed to become new manager of Turkey in August, it appears unlikely that he will go back on that agreement. Perhaps at aged 64 he is more suited to a less demanding day to day role of a Premier League Manager and therefore sadly we may have missed our chance with Gus.

Probability – Very unlikely, sadly

Roy Hodgson (Current odds 16/1)

We’d hardly be dancing outside the Shankly Gates if this was the choice but you can’t question how well he has done at Fulham. He’d be relatively cheap considering the level of experience he’s had but I can just imagine the conversation between Torres and his agent –

“It’s alright Fernando, you’ll be okay at Liverpool now. Roy Hodgson is going to be the new manager”

Probability – Did I say how much a liked Alex Mcleish?

Bernd Schuster (Current odds 20/1)

Uninspiring and having been discussing management of Xerez of which he is/was part-owner then hopefully it’s a non-starter

Probability – Bernd who?

Frank Rijkaard (Current odds 25/1)

After proving himself to be a truly vile player for spitting twice at Rudi Voller in the World Cup, he went on to be a well respected and attack-minded manager at Barcelona. He’s also got the name to attract big players but hasn’t obviously had the experience in England. Currently at Galatasaray, surely he deserves better than that.

Probability – Yes okay we’ll take him

The rest of the ‘ahem’ contenders

Marcello Lippi (25-1) – Possible after the World Cup, not a bad choice but expensive presumably

Phil Scolari (25-1) – No, you’re okay thanks

Marco Van Basten (25-1) – No nonsense manager, currently available. I could be persuaded

Bruce Arena (33-1) – Yes, seriously he’s on the list

Steve Mclaren (33-1) – Now this is getting silly

The long shots

Kevin Keegan (40-1) – That’s all we need, a manager for 3 games

Greame Souness (50-1) – Now where did I park that Delorean?

Roy Keane (100-1) – No comment. There might be children reading

David Beckham (500-1) – Well let’s see now. Would we have any tactics do you think?

Not on the list

Jamie Carragher – Maybe 5 years too early, one day though hopefully

Odds courtesy of Skybet

[Kenneth]

Liverpool
Played 31
Points 51

Everton
Played 30
Points 45


You can't tell me that, given the gulf in spending and squad ability, that the manager isn't a massive factor in our league position.

[red g]

Liverpool
Played 31
Points 51

Everton
Played 30
Points 45


You can't tell me that, given the gulf in spending and squad ability, that the manager isn't a massive factor in our league position.

everton have spent quite a lot and probably in last 3 seasons spent a lot more than us.......

felliani 15million
yakuba 10million
billyrussian 10million
baines 5million

errrrr........but you get my point.

also they are, lucky enough to have some great youth prospects breaking through now who will save them a fortune in the transfer market

[Vermilion]

Liverpool
Played 31
Points 51

Everton
Played 30
Points 45


You can't tell me that, given the gulf in spending and squad ability, that the manager isn't a massive factor in our league position.

Wait till Moyes manages a club where he's expected to win every game, challenge for the Champions league, qualify for the champions league, win the prem, etc etc.

Then see how consistently he does all that.

[Exiled_red]

If you ignore the whole swapping, selling etc, ignore how much money spent or made, the underlying thing here is that we have players that did cost 200+mill to bring here. I dont care if we sold 1 player for 100mill, the others still had a price point to bring them to the club. I dont see players with the quality in that squad to justify even half that amount.

This £200m+ figure has been banded around quite a bit, if we're just going off the cost of the current squad this is what I make it out as:

1 Cavalieri.....£3m
2 Johnson.....£17m
4 Aquilani......£20m
5 Agger........£5.8m
8 Gerrard......£0
9 Torres.......£20.2m
11 Riera........£8m
12 Aurelio......£0
15 Benayoun..£6m
16 Kyriakos....£1.5m
17 Rodriguez..£0
18 Kuyt.........£9.5m
19 Babel........£11.5m
20 Mascherano.£18m
21 Lucas........£6m
22 Insua.........£2m (Direct Swap for Palletta who cost £2m)
23 Carragher....£0
24 Ngog..........£1.5m
25 Reina.........£6m
27 Degen........£0
30 Itandje.......£2.5m
37 Skrtel.........£6.5m

Total..............£145m

That's the majority of our squad there are the some other kids to include who have come through from the youth system and and a few we've bought in (I couldn't find prices for but isn't really that significant probably ~£5-10m at the most). The 22 players listed there cost £145m which is alot less than is being talked about and is an average of ~£6.5m each.

[Tee]

Including the ones who have come and gone during Rafa's tenure the figure would easily get to £200million.

[Ben_Itez]

I'm not making excuses for Rafa but there's no way our squad cost 200 million to assemble

Do you tot up the value of all the houses you've bought and sold and add them on to the current value of your present house and tell people that's how much your house cost? Thought not.

[Kenneth]

I'm not making excuses for Rafa but there's no way our squad cost 200 million to assemble

Do you tot up the value of all the houses you've bought and sold and add them on to the current value of your present house and tell people that's how much your house cost? Thought not.

Oh good, this discussion again.

[Tee]

I'm not making excuses for Rafa but there's no way our squad cost 200 million to assemble

Do you tot up the value of all the houses you've bought and sold and add them on to the current value of your present house and tell people that's how much your house cost? Thought not.

For me it is not so much about how much he has physically spent on the team, it is about how far we have come in terms of the trading done.

To use your very own analogy it is like Rafa started out in 2004 with a 3 bed semi and after buying and selling over the past 6 years we are still left with a 3 bed semi, but arguably in need of serious modernisation.