A question about Rafa...

[Roboklopp]

I think that Rafa's biggest mistake last summer was not to bring in a proven goalscorer to partner/cover for Torres. We did not need a CM as SG could have played there this season and in his CM cameos he has shown he would have done a superb job there.

As a team we just miss too many chances and that is proving very costly. So I think rather than spend all that money on Aquilani he should have gone out and signed a quality CF.

Ngog is still one for the future and he has had to carry too much of a burden when he has played and just is not quite ready yet.

Agree with this, altho I think Rafa had the money pulled from under his feet here.

[CJ]

rafa has said that his apporach hasnt changed. not srue i agree not sure i dont.

is it possible that the problem is rafas system. its a great system when it works at full tilt ie last season. the problem being that when its not fully on form or the players arent confident enough to do the right thing then it wobbles a bit?

am justthinking out loud.

[banditos]

Anyone can pinpoint the best players in the world and say i want him, him and him. Anyone can do it.

You dont get to just buy the best players all the time though, that's not realistic and if rafa cant get us in the CL positions with a side featuring Pepe, Agger, Carra, Mascher, Johnson, Gerrard & Torres, then he's simply not good enough.

Craig, half those players have missed a lot of football this year. Its clear our squad isn't strong enough to cover them, particularly up front. IMO Rafa is the sole reason our expectations are so high. We were nowhere near challenging for the league or Champions league finals for the 15 years prior to his arrival.

[Craig_H]

Craig, half those players have missed a lot of football this year. Its clear our squad isn't strong enough to cover them, particularly up front. IMO Rafa is the sole reason our expectations are so high. We were nowhere near challenging for the league or Champions league finals for the 15 years prior to his arrival.

I agree that rafa's raised the bar, and credit to him for doing so. He still has to be judged against those standards though.

We're short in cover up front, and that could've been fixed if we'd signed a forward instead of Aquilani.

It's by the by now anyway, what's done is done and if we miss the CL next season, our days as a club which competes at the top end, are over.

[banditos]

I agree that rafa's raised the bar, and credit to him for doing so. He still has to be judged against those standards though.

We're short in cover up front, and that could've been fixed if we'd signed a forward instead of Aquilani.

It's by the by now anyway, what's done is done and if we miss the CL next season, our days as a club which competes at the top end, are over.

Disagree that we didn't need to replace Alonso. In the formation we played so well in last year, we needed 2 CMs, not including Gerrard as he's in behind Torres. Patently need 3 players in the squad for that position, Mascher, Lucas and ..... Spearing??

[Chrono]

Disagree that we didn't need to replace Alonso. In the formation we played so well in last year, we needed 2 CMs, not including Gerrard as he's in behind Torres. Patently need 3 players in the squad for that position, Mascher, Lucas and ..... Spearing??

So you buy someone who can't play?

Rafa has totally ****ed up this season and I am with Craig (this doesn't happen very often ) that there is no good reason other than his mistakes for a team with as much quality as ours not finishing in the top 4. Player for player we have easily a better team than Arsenal or any of the challengers to the 4th position and his negativity is our downfall.

I miss the days when we used to go out and play our game rather than playing to nullify some **** opponent.

[Guest]

So you buy someone who can't play?

Rafa has totally ****ed up this season and I am with Craig (this doesn't happen very often ) that there is no good reason other than his mistakes for a team with as much quality as ours not finishing in the top 4. Player for player we have easily a better team than Arsenal or any of the challengers to the 4th position and his negativity is our downfall.

I miss the days when we used to go out and play our game rather than playing to nullify some **** opponent.

I don't buy that at all. We played like champions last season with the same tactics. The players' attitude should be questioned more, not the manager. We've had to rebuild from the back due to our poor defensive record earlier in the season, so I guess that's down to poor confidence as well.

As for Aquilani, I think Rafa thought that our midfield could have stepped up to the plate and covered for him whilst he was out, as he wasn't bought for one season was he?

Rafa made mistakes yes, as I would personally have played Gerrard central midfield with Mascher all season and blooded Benni as a deep lying player alongside Torres but hey, life is about making decisions sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

[Lecter]

I miss the days when we used to go out and play our game rather than playing to nullify some **** opponent.

When exactly was this???

Having watched Liverpool since the mid 70's the only out and out attacking side we had was the 87-89 side

Shank's and Paisleys sides use to specialise in quieting the opposition and their crowd (yes by nullifying them) slowing the game down so we could control it before starting to play our football

Theres a lot of nostalgia about some of our past teams and rightly so but much of it is looking at us with very short memories and very rose tinted spectacles

[Guest]

When exactly was this???

Having watched Liverpool since the mid 70's the only out and out attacking side we had was the 87-89 side

Shank's and Paisleys sides use to specialise in quieting the opposition and their crowd (yes by nullifying them) slowing the game down so we could control it before starting to play our football

Theres a lot of nostalgia about some of our past teams and rightly so but much of it is looking at us with very short memories and very rose tinted spectacles

Apart from the 87-88 team, we never had a team who played all out attacking football. Our game was based more on possession and control, much like the way our team is set up under Rafa. We always had a great balance, with a good attack and a good defence.

[Chrono]

When exactly was this???

Having watched Liverpool since the mid 70's the only out and out attacking side we had was the 87-89 side

Shank's and Paisleys sides use to specialise in quieting the opposition and their crowd (yes by nullifying them) slowing the game down so we could control it before starting to play our football

Theres a lot of nostalgia about some of our past teams and rightly so but much of it is looking at us with very short memories and very rose tinted spectacles

I'm not talking about Brazil or Barcelona, I'm referring to playing 8 defensive minded players in a starting 11. Nullifying play is one thing but playing to counter the opposition regardless of who they are is another.

[Lecter]

Apart from the 87-88 team, we never had a team who played all out attacking football. Our game was based more on possession and control, much like the way our team is set up under Rafa. We always had a great balance, with a good attack and a good defence.

Most importantly we had good players and **** loads of money to spend

I was talking with a mate over the weekend and we were reminiscing back to when we bought Dalglish for a British Transfer Record Fee of £440 K, we followed that up by purchasing Souness a few months later for £350 K

Thats like buying a £32 million plus player one month then signing a £26 million player the next month

[Guest]

Most importantly we had good players and **** loads of money to spend

I was talking with a mate over the weekend and we were reminiscing back to when we bought Dalglish for a British Transfer Record Fee of £440 K, we followed that up by purchasing Souness a few months later for £350 K

Thats like buying a £32 million plus player one month then signing a £26 million player the next month

[Craig_H]

Disagree that we didn't need to replace Alonso. In the formation we played so well in last year, we needed 2 CMs, not including Gerrard as he's in behind Torres. Patently need 3 players in the squad for that position, Mascher, Lucas and ..... Spearing??

I'd have been inclined to go 442 myself, because in the 4231 system, you need an Alonso and he's not a player you can really replace or replicate properly.

[Lecter]

I'm not talking about Brazil or Barcelona, I'm referring to playing 8 defensive minded players in a starting 11. Nullifying play is one thing but playing to counter the opposition regardless of who they are is another.

Be serious we dont play 8 defensive players EVER

At most we play 4 defenders and 2 holding midfielders, 2 of the defenders are "attacking fullbacks"

Again look at Paisleys late 70's side

A. Kennedy, Hansen, Thompson, Neal, Souness, Case, R. Kennedy, McDermott, Dalglish & Johnson

Not a winger amongst them and two attacking fullbacks

Theres one crucial difference imo, the players we had then were far better footballers than the ones we have now*








*(excluding Gerrard & Torres who imo are the only 2 players we have who would get near that side)

[Craig_H]

I don't buy that at all. We played like champions last season with the same tactics. The players' attitude should be questioned more, not the manager. We've had to rebuild from the back due to our poor defensive record earlier in the season, so I guess that's down to poor confidence as well.

As for Aquilani, I think Rafa thought that our midfield could have stepped up to the plate and covered for him whilst he was out, as he wasn't bought for one season was he?

Rafa made mistakes yes, as I would personally have played Gerrard central midfield with Mascher all season and blooded Benni as a deep lying player alongside Torres but hey, life is about making decisions sometimes they work and sometimes they don't.

That's the problem fredo, we're using the same system and tactics as last year, without the players to utilise it successfully. Rafa's so inflexible, that the same methods are used, despite not having the right players to make it work.

Case in point is when Torres either comes off or doesnt play, he brings in a vastly inferior replacement and asks them to do the same job as Torres - which they obviously cant.

The system is useless if you dont have the correct personnel to implement it - and we're asking Lucas to be Alonso and make the same system work as it did last season - there's no way that would work.

If rafa was more flexible, he'd change the system to suit the personnel we have. But that's not happened.