Player Development

[CJ]

winning football is about tactical development and organisation. we dont do any of that at this age as you just want kids to be playing football and developing their skills and technique. at barcelonas la masia academy they dont do any tactical work until the age of 16.

as for the parents - in my team the parents arent allowed to say a word during the match. they can encourage the team and their kids but nothing even remotely instructional.

kids need encouragement and freedom to express themselves. they dont need moronic coaches and pushy parents ruining things.

what do ajax do?

[el matador]

what do ajax do?

not sure but their production line has dried up recently and whether thats down to changes within the academy structure or a genuine lack of talent coming through.

I think Liverpool have the right kind of philosophy now. For example instead of keeping all of our best players for the reserves and winning the reserve title, we have sent a few of them on loan at the most crucial part of the season.

They are not bothered about winning the leage but know that the experience will do the likes of spearing, darby, ecclesstone and threlfall the world of good. Some of them might not make it here but at least they will make it somewhere, whereas under previous academy structures they would keep them all and go all out to win the title.

If you look at the likes of bruna and dalle valle who play for the reserves, they arent exactly setting the world alight because they are playing an age level above and against experienced players but they will come on quicker and will be better for it.

This will hopefully translate into more youth players getting into the first team- hence player development first and foremost at the expense of winning the reserve title.

[red g]

not sure but their production line has dried up recently and whether thats down to changes within the academy structure or a genuine lack of talent coming through.

I think Liverpool have the right kind of philosophy now. For example instead of keeping all of our best players for the reserves and winning the reserve title, we have sent a few of them on loan at the most crucial part of the season.

They are not bothered about winning the leage but know that the experience will do the likes of spearing, darby, ecclesstone and threlfall the world of good. Some of them might not make it here but at least they will make it somewhere, whereas under previous academy structures they would keep them all and go all out to win the title.

If you look at the likes of bruna and dalle valle who play for the reserves, they arent exactly setting the world alight because they are playing an age level above and against experienced players but they will come on quicker and will be better for it.

This will hopefully translate into more youth players getting into the first team- hence player development first and foremost at the expense of winning the reserve title.

we have had this philosophy for a while, its also the same in the youth cup while people were creaming over arsenals youth ( not in a graham rix sort of way) when you looked closer our kids were a couple of years younger than a lot of theres.

I do think under Rafa i am very happy how the youth and reserves are doing just not convinced on the first team!!

[dww]

I think there is an interesting point here though - the thing about Arsenal is that while the jury is out in terms of the ability of the set up in terms of getting kids from the age of 10 or whatever to the first team consistently (it is clear though that a few players are now staring to come through I admit) they have shined large numbers of players in the reserves that have come through to the first team well. They also don't have a wildly successful reserve/youth team at those levels as far as I know.

It seems reasonable to split development into those two stages. At the minute we have bought in a fair number of younger players and seem to be able to prepare them for decent level professional football (Hammill, Nemeth, Anderson, Hobbs, etc. have all shown that) but other than Insua we are yet to see the system work for our first team. I think there are a few signs that it might in Kelly and there seems more excitement about the reserves than previously but it is still an unknown as to how well the investment there will pay off.

Obviously at the lower level the new system has only been in for a few months so really nothing can be said. Would be interesting to know what had changed. Unlike when the Dutch guy came in previously I haven't seen much from McParland, Segura, Owens or Borello in the media (even Dalglish hasn't talked in much detail).

[kev776]

before i got into coaching kids i too used to think that having a successful team meant having a team full of players that were destined for greater things but it isnt the case.

developing players for the first team isnt about winning its about developing players to have good all round technical ability, mentality and intelligence. winning is about winning matches at all costs including player development.

the best example i can give is that if any of you go watch kids football on sunday just take a closer look at the following things

- does the goalie boot the ball to the half way line or does the team pretty much always play the ball out?
- how many times do the coaches shout 'get rid of it' instead of keep it when the defenders or midfielders have the ball at their feet?
- when attackers try a trick and lose it are they bollocked for too much fancy stuff ?

this is a big thing in coaching and my philosophy is to give the kids the tools to play in training and then let them make their own decisions on the pitch.

im not that bothered about winning but last season to prove a point i entered our team into 3 cup competitions and i set the team up to win. we won 2 and reached the final of the other but the players were had to be very disciplined about positional play and defensive organisation. its wasnt fast free flowing stuff because the players were playing to tactics and not how they wanted to. it was all solid defence and lightening counters.

at youth level winning matches / leagues or cup competitions is often at the expense of player development.

I have coached youth teams here in Germany for the last 20 years, and this is so true. We dont allow the kids to decide what positions they will later play untill they are 14 or 15 or even later, we try them all over the park, a kid who thinks he is a striker may be a natural defender and vice versa, this often happens.

There is a big drive on letting kids play naturally and not fill their heads full of tactical ****e, a decent team playing without fear will play well and enjoy the game more than a team of diciplined robots.

Tactics come much later than in UK, a goalie that boots it upfield is frowned upon and the defenders/midfielders will moan because it HAS to be played out from the back.

All of our defenders will spend at least a season or 2 in midfield to become comfortable on the ball, less chance of hoofing the ****er upfield.

Goalkeepers also play in friendlies/training matches in midfield so they become decent ball players, goalkeeper training is done seperately under goalkeeping coaches.

[Resu]

This is where Norway failed the last 15 years. The natinol teams success was based on the long ball style with midfielders coming in support.
Suddenly every youth coach in the land played like this. The result was that the kids coming up where very good at tactics, but very few had any technical abilities at all.
A prime example of this is Carew. He was so strong and quick at a early stage that he never trained much on technic. He still became a good player, but he has admitted that he should have trained more with the ball. He could then have become a really good one.
This is now changing, and along with all the artificial turf fields that are being built Norway now actually have young players coming through that can handle the ball as well as run a lot.

[el matador]

I have coached youth teams here in Germany for the last 20 years, and this is so true. We dont allow the kids to decide what positions they will later play untill they are 14 or 15 or even later, we try them all over the park, a kid who thinks he is a striker may be a natural defender and vice versa, this often happens.

There is a big drive on letting kids play naturally and not fill their heads full of tactical ****e, a decent team playing without fear will play well and enjoy the game more than a team of diciplined robots.

Tactics come much later than in UK, a goalie that boots it upfield is frowned upon and the defenders/midfielders will moan because it HAS to be played out from the back.

All of our defenders will spend at least a season or 2 in midfield to become comfortable on the ball, less chance of hoofing the ****er upfield.

Goalkeepers also play in friendlies/training matches in midfield so they become decent ball players, goalkeeper training is done seperately under goalkeeping coaches.

i think the problem is worse in this country because of the level of physicality of the game even at youth level. The first requisite in this country to play football is fitness and strength.

The first team is dominated by the older lads (the ones born between the months of september to january) and its all about strength and speed and tough tackling. When the players do get the ball they are closed down quickly and some of them are actually scared of receiving the ball. As soon as they get it they boot it away.

The younger lads (the ones born from may to august) are technically better because they dont have the size advantage and have to use their skills but invariably they dont always get into the first team because they get brushed off the ball easliy or they get caught into possession.

If you dont coach at youth level you might think that surely 8 or 9 months doesnt make a difference but it really does.

even at my club im seen as being odd because im not obsessed with winning football matches. Im more interested in players playing football and not being afraid to experiment on the pitch.

So what if one of the lads lost the ball whilst doing a step over - at least he tried and he should keep trying. That is the only way kids ever learn because they have to figure it out for themselves.

Its all about player development and more importantly enjoyment. If they enjoy playing football them they will naturally get better.

Not all players are destined for greatness and very few ever make it to the lower levels of the game let alone the highest levels. however, with the right type of environment even those kids who wont make it as pro footballers will still learn the core values of fitness, discipline, teamwork and a love for football some of which will help them in their lives.

If they dont make it maybe their kids will.

[Fernandinho]

el matador i think you have it spot on, not that i have spent much time coaching at the younger levels of Spanish football, but if their league is anything to go by then they focus on technique and skill. I think its the best way simply because you can send a kid to the gym at 19 years old but you cant just make him a technically gifted footballer with the snap of the fingers once the players development is nearing its end

[el matador]

el matador i think you have it spot on, not that i have spent much time coaching at the younger levels of Spanish football, but if their league is anything to go by then they focus on technique and skill. I think its the best way simply because you can send a kid to the gym at 19 years old but you cant just make him a technically gifted footballer with the snap of the fingers once the players development is nearing its end

we are disadvantaged because our young players not only have to technically gifted but also have to be able to mix it with the physical side.

In spain things are different, if you look at players like jesus navas or diego capel who are very technically adept players but they wouldnt last 5 minutes in our league.

They would be kicked all over the park and wouldnt have any impact at all so its important for players coming through our ranks to have both techical and physical qualities.

Players like gerrard and rooney are good examples of british players who can play and mix it with the best. Torres is an example of what foreign players have to do to make it in our league (but Torres is a freak for spanish football and he is a one off - you just dont see players like him in spain)

The idea is to combine all aspects to develop good players.

[Fernandinho]

but dont u think its possible to focus on technique and then build up strength later on, as they say u learn best when you are younger, look at ngog, he seems pretty skilled and last year he was a twig, now he is starting to bulk up. next year if he continues how he is he will have the technique and the physique to match it

[CJ]

not sure this is relevant but i went to watch southport v hyde on satuday and their was an under 7s game on at half time. i am sure that each team had one girl in it. the girls where the best players on the pitch. some of the boys reaction to the ball was to just kick it. it was a shame as one team was better and the opposition couldnt kick it far enough to clear it.

anyway do people think the physical nature of the game here is one reason why we dont produce skillfull players?

[The Birdman]

not sure this is relevant but i went to watch southport v hyde on satuday and their was an under 7s game on at half time. i am sure that each team had one girl in it. the girls where the best players on the pitch. some of the boys reaction to the ball was to just kick it. it was a shame as one team was better and the opposition couldnt kick it far enough to clear it.

anyway do people think the physical nature of the game here is one reason why we dont produce skillfull players?

There are 2 main reason, 1 is the overpowering prescence of parents screaming on the touchlines, my son is 10 and it is bad at his age group.

The biggest factor though imo is that the kids go to 11 a side full size pitches at U12 (I think) so the biggest lads at that age get picked by the majority of the teams because they are stronger, can kick it further because most coaches of local teams in the country get a boner from winning a U12 or U13 league rather than coaching the kids to express themselves and improve the technique

[Fernandinho]

hahaha that is so much like in Australia, except we start in under 10's, but i tihnk they recently changed that. It was always the tallest kid who was strongest and kicked the ball the best, the small skilled kids tended to get over looked

[Kenneth]

not sure this is relevant but i went to watch southport v hyde on satuday and their was an under 7s game on at half time. i am sure that each team had one girl in it. the girls where the best players on the pitch. some of the boys reaction to the ball was to just kick it. it was a shame as one team was better and the opposition couldnt kick it far enough to clear it.
anyway do people think the physical nature of the game here is one reason why we dont produce skillfull players?

Poor sods.

[CJ]

Poor sods.

i know i felt sorry for them most of the game was played about 5 yards from their goal. though one lad that scored did the robot .