Burnley vs Liverpool match thread

[el matador]

But you make it sound like waving a magic wand. The moronic Benitez with no idea about this most obvious solution that even the fans can see.

Gerrard/Mascherano or Gerrard/Lucas have been our middle 2 enough times with **** results to know that's not the case. The only difference is performance.

I think the performance is derived from intent. If set out to attack teams and move the ball quickly from midfield to the forward line we play better. If we set out to contain the opposition with lucas / masher then we're better without the ball than with it. At times its like watching atraining session.

Our midfielders get it, give it away, get it back and give it away again.

For most of the season lucas has struggled to make any decent forward passes and masher hasnt been cute enough to find gerrard in his hole.

Instead of being one of our greatest strengths, the centre of midfield has been our biggest weakness.

[Exiled_red]

not just wigan and pompey mate.

we've been pretty **** in most away games this season because we've gone there with a defensive mentality.

Does anyone know out of the total amount of games weve lost (17 or 18) how many have been away from home ?

i agree with shaggy that aquilani looked good today but i still dont believe that he can play in a centre midfield of two but could play well in a midfield 3 of a 433.

Of 18 games lost we've only lost 5 at home (2PL, 2CL, 1FA Cup)

[el matador]

Of 18 games lost we've only lost 5 at home (2PL, 2CL, 1FA Cup)

13 away defeats is just too many. If people think that im 'massively oversimplying' things then read arbeloa's interview below.

Arbeloa Interview – Interesting insight into Rafa’s Tactical Ethos/Set up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting Interview with Alvaro Arbeloa in the latest edition of World Soccer by Sid Lowe. Have reproduced the Q & A relating to Liverpool and the last one to rotation. Should be noted he is not criticizing the manager, just comparing from his experiences. However, it provides clarity to the debate on how the team are and have been setup under Rafa and what many have alluded to in regards to how mechanical we are and the influence Rafa has had on that and the man-management debate.


You began your career at Real Madrid. Moving to the Bernabeu from Liverpool last summer must have been like a homecoming for you…?

Yes, but it’s a different Madrid and a different me. When I left without a buy-back option, thinking the door would remain shut. I’m glad to have been wrong. I took a decision that I thought was right at the time and I still think so. It’s hard to make the first team. The pressure is intense; there wasn’t the stability that a fantastic generation of youth teamers perhaps needed. And, as for me, I wasn’t ready. This summer, I was. Things have fallen into place: the return of the president [Florentino Perez], my situation at Liverpool, my development. I’ve been lucky.


How important were Liverpool and Rafa Benitez in your development?

Hugely important. It was a wonderful opportunity and a great experience. Rafa is very, very, very demanding. He pushes you extremely hard. To work with him you have to have patience and understanding; you need to accept what he’s like. There’s no doubt that if you can work with him, he improves you. He’s correcting you every single second, always wanting more. That was good for me. So was going to the Premier League because it’s so much more physical. It made new demands, developing sides of my game that I hadn’t developed in Spain.


What stood out most about English Football?

The fans, the folklore, the atmosphere, the feeling, the intensity. There’s a respect, a kind of deference, towards tradition and indentity. In Spain, the team has to carry the fans; in England it’s the other way round. Madrid’s fans demand the best, Liverpool’s fans help you produce it.


What are the biggest differences between Manuel Pellegrini and Rafa Benitez?
Pellegrini gives the players more freedom, he’s not so intense and has more of a soft approach. The style is different. We play two-touch, there’s more willingness to take risks; Rafa doesn’t want you to take any risks ever. Rafa’s happy to score the first and sit back; Pellegrini is the opposite. He’s more focused on possession. They’re different concepts, and both perfectly acceptable.


But should Liverpool and Rafa let go a bit? Do they need to be freer, more creative?

Rafa was a bit more attacking last season. Liverpool follow Rafa’s instructions very closely. What Rafa wants, the team does. Rafa works hard during the week and a lot of the time the team plays on memory. That’s very good in certain situations, but there are momentsthat you need to think or yourself and do something unexpected. If the opposition works you out, you need you need another option. Sometimes, within [Benitez’s] framework, doing something unpredictable is hard. Every player knows what he wants. The 1-2-3 you work on in the week is the 1-2-3 you produce in the matches. AT times that can be a bit robotic.


Was it a relief to leave Liverpool?

I was sad to go, but as soon as I saw I had this opportunity there was no way I could turn it down – the chance to come home and to be part of an incredible project.


Are you suggesting team rotation is therefore necessary for psychological factors rather than physical reasons?

Yes, for sure. If you have a player who hasn’t played for five or six games, there’s the risk that he will switch off. He’ll not give his all, he won’t train as hard. It’s not just about making sure all the players are physically right but that they come to training thinking they have a chance of playing, that they compete – and, as a consequence of that, oblige their team-mates to compete too. You make sure people are happy and working. TO do that they have to know that there’s a place to fight for. Players want to play, especially in a World Cup year.

[cream]

begs the question why benitez paid £10m for him

The guys on sunday supplement today seemed fairly convinced that benitez was on his way to juve.

The last time I watched sunday supplement, I threw up.

[dww]

13 away defeats is just too many. If people think that im 'massively oversimplying' things then read arbeloa's interview below.

Arbeloa Interview – Interesting insight into Rafa’s Tactical Ethos/Set up

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Interesting Interview with Alvaro Arbeloa in the latest edition of World Soccer by Sid Lowe. Have reproduced the Q & A relating to Liverpool and the last one to rotation. Should be noted he is not criticizing the manager, just comparing from his experiences. However, it provides clarity to the debate on how the team are and have been setup under Rafa and what many have alluded to in regards to how mechanical we are and the influence Rafa has had on that and the man-management debate.


You began your career at Real Madrid. Moving to the Bernabeu from Liverpool last summer must have been like a homecoming for you…?

Yes, but it’s a different Madrid and a different me. When I left without a buy-back option, thinking the door would remain shut. I’m glad to have been wrong. I took a decision that I thought was right at the time and I still think so. It’s hard to make the first team. The pressure is intense; there wasn’t the stability that a fantastic generation of youth teamers perhaps needed. And, as for me, I wasn’t ready. This summer, I was. Things have fallen into place: the return of the president [Florentino Perez], my situation at Liverpool, my development. I’ve been lucky.


How important were Liverpool and Rafa Benitez in your development?

Hugely important. It was a wonderful opportunity and a great experience. Rafa is very, very, very demanding. He pushes you extremely hard. To work with him you have to have patience and understanding; you need to accept what he’s like. There’s no doubt that if you can work with him, he improves you. He’s correcting you every single second, always wanting more. That was good for me. So was going to the Premier League because it’s so much more physical. It made new demands, developing sides of my game that I hadn’t developed in Spain.


What stood out most about English Football?

The fans, the folklore, the atmosphere, the feeling, the intensity. There’s a respect, a kind of deference, towards tradition and indentity. In Spain, the team has to carry the fans; in England it’s the other way round. Madrid’s fans demand the best, Liverpool’s fans help you produce it.


What are the biggest differences between Manuel Pellegrini and Rafa Benitez?
Pellegrini gives the players more freedom, he’s not so intense and has more of a soft approach. The style is different. We play two-touch, there’s more willingness to take risks; Rafa doesn’t want you to take any risks ever. Rafa’s happy to score the first and sit back; Pellegrini is the opposite. He’s more focused on possession. They’re different concepts, and both perfectly acceptable.


But should Liverpool and Rafa let go a bit? Do they need to be freer, more creative?

Rafa was a bit more attacking last season. Liverpool follow Rafa’s instructions very closely. What Rafa wants, the team does. Rafa works hard during the week and a lot of the time the team plays on memory. That’s very good in certain situations, but there are momentsthat you need to think or yourself and do something unexpected. If the opposition works you out, you need you need another option. Sometimes, within [Benitez’s] framework, doing something unpredictable is hard. Every player knows what he wants. The 1-2-3 you work on in the week is the 1-2-3 you produce in the matches. AT times that can be a bit robotic.


Was it a relief to leave Liverpool?

I was sad to go, but as soon as I saw I had this opportunity there was no way I could turn it down – the chance to come home and to be part of an incredible project.


Are you suggesting team rotation is therefore necessary for psychological factors rather than physical reasons?

Yes, for sure. If you have a player who hasn’t played for five or six games, there’s the risk that he will switch off. He’ll not give his all, he won’t train as hard. It’s not just about making sure all the players are physically right but that they come to training thinking they have a chance of playing, that they compete – and, as a consequence of that, oblige their team-mates to compete too. You make sure people are happy and working. TO do that they have to know that there’s a place to fight for. Players want to play, especially in a World Cup year.

I think you are taking what you want to hear from that o be honest. At the start of the season it was clear that Rafa wanted Lucas to be higher up the pitch. It didn't work out at least partly because Mascherano and the CBs were woefully out of form.

We played Lucas and Gerrard together against Wigan which should fit into your plan but we played the most woeful football. Largely because Gerrard didn't move forward and players didn't follow any sort of plan.

When players like Gerrard and Alonso have been on form it is clear that while they are playing to a plan they will improvise around it. Part of the problem is that we have too many players who don't have the strength of personality to do that in my opinion (and that Gerrard has largely been poor this season).

That is not to say that I don't think there are flaws in the way Rafa approaches things - but I'm completely unconvinced by the argument that simply putting a more attacking central pairing this season would have changed results. Not least because some of our worst performances came when trying just that.

[Bender]

Nice to see that you were giving the lads your usual full support. With fans like you behind us we can't go wrong. Is 6-0-6 on tonight? I look forward to your views on it

meet me outside and i'll give you my views incase you missed anything i am glad we won and still hope we get 4th ......i'll ring 606 you ring talk****e

[5europeancups]

Was anyone else a bit disappointed when Pacheco wasnt brough on with 15 minutes to go and Lucas was brought on when we wee winning 3-0.

I thought that the scoreline really flattered Liverpool today and we were lucky not to be losing at half time.

Maxi's goal though was real class thanks to Aqualani. Its a shame he is so lightweight.

[Shaggy]

Was anyone else a bit disappointed when Pacheco wasnt brough on with 15 minutes to go and Lucas was brought on when we wee winning 3-0.

I was a little bit, aye.