No winners in the team

[red_in_oz]

What is pissing me off about Gerrard is the way he keeps sulking with everyone in the team when they misplace a pass or something, yet he then goes and does the exact same thing.

ffs I wanna see him encouraging his team mates.

You're right. Too often when things go wrong, the only noise Gerrard makes is when a team mate makes a mistake and Gerrard criticises him.

As soon as we went 0-1 down yesterday Gerrard should have spurring the team on and been the noisiest, most encouraging player out there. He should have demanded the team respond to the setback.

I remember seeing Souness at Upton Park once and even though we were comfortably in control of the game and the crowd quiet, all I could hear was this big Scots voice urging Liverpool on. I think we won 5-2 that day.

[G]

One of the things that I've been thinking recently is the lack of real winners in our team. Where are the Souness' the Dalglish's?

Recently I had a debate with some people on here comparing the merits of Souness and Gerrard. My argument was that Gerrard isn't half the player that Souness was. Do you think Souness would have let the team play like that yesterday>

There is nobody in the current team who when it goes tits-up, takes responsibility to pull the it together. When we go a goal down we are completely rudderless. We're missing a souness/keane type. Badly.

Totally agree.

[Charlie_B]

What is pissing me off about Gerrard is the way he keeps sulking with everyone in the team when they misplace a pass or something, yet he then goes and does the exact same thing.

ffs I wanna see him encouraging his team mates.

Spot on. He doesn't rally, he bemoans. He was just as bad as anybody else yesteray in terms of giving the ball away.

[alunevans]

I know he's not playing well at the mo, but the nature of the Gerrard bashing is making me uneasy. I think its a bit over the top. Even if criticism is justified I think its a bit "all or nothing" if that makes sense.

In terms of the original post I'd agree that Souness was the better of the two. I've still not seen a midfielder like him.

[NICKZS]

The worst thing about all this is that the TEAM lose yesterday and all anyone can talk about is Gerrard. We are now looking and sounding like a one man team, which is throughly depressing

[Bob]

The worst thing about all this is that the TEAM lose yesterday and all anyone can talk about is Gerrard. We are now looking and sounding like a one man team, which is throughly depressing

Exact-a-****ing-lut-ly!

Gerrard is off form, and suddenly we're bashing him left, right, and ****ing center. Terrible. There's hardly any vitriol reserved for Rafa, who seems nigh on untouchable. Our problems stretch much wider than one player i'm afraid.

Bashing our most gifted player of a generation is hardly helpful, in fact its reminiscent of another cantankerous old ****, namely Ian St. John!

Walk on the through the storm. Yeah right. :whatever:

[Sir Bob]

I think its a bit rich to knock Gerrard to be honest, he's been our best player now for about 4 seasons. Sure he's going through a poor spell but everything wrong in the team isn't down to him.

Is SG better than Souness, yes he is. He's the best LFC player I've seen & I've been watching the Reds since the mid 1970's.

[Shaggy]

Exact-a-****ing-lut-ly!

Gerrard is off form, and suddenly we're bashing him left, right, and ****ing center. Terrible. There's hardly any vitriol reserved for Rafa, who seems nigh on untouchable. Our problems stretch much wider than one player i'm afraid.

Bashing our most gifted player of a generation is hardly helpful, in fact its reminiscent of another cantankerous old ****, namely Ian St. John!

Walk on the through the storm. Yeah right. :whatever:

Totally disagree. There are threads on Rafa, Garcia, Pennant, Hyypia, and virtually every player has been slated - and rightly so, for they were all **** yesterday.

Just because Gerrard is our best player doesn't make him exempt from criticism. He was abysmal yesterday, as he has been all season, and an even worse captain.

[Tom]

I suggest you go back and read the original posting. It's about a lack of winners, and players not taking responsbility. It's perfectly reasonable comment to make and was patently evident yesterday.

[Sir Bob]

I suggest you go back and read the original posting. It's about a lack of winners, and players not taking responsbility. It's perfectly reasonable comment to make and was patently evident yesterday.

The team yesterday had about 7 or 8 of our CL winning team and probably more of our FA Cup winning team. We don't lack winners at all.

Yes, this season has been poor but I don't except that the players don't want it enough or that we lack winners on the pitch. The truth is we are a side completely lacking in confidence. As soon as they scored the game was effectively over. I love Rafa but he's made too many changes this season. Results have suffered & confidence, particularly away from home is very low.

[NICKZS]

Exact-a-****ing-lut-ly!

Gerrard is off form, and suddenly we're bashing him left, right, and ****ing center. Terrible. There's hardly any vitriol reserved for Rafa, who seems nigh on untouchable. Our problems stretch much wider than one player i'm afraid.

Bashing our most gifted player of a generation is hardly helpful, in fact its reminiscent of another cantankerous old ****, namely Ian St. John!

Walk on the through the storm. Yeah right. :whatever:

That's not necessarily what I was getting at. It's just that most people seem to fall back on Gerrard in these times of desperation and it seems like a nice quick fix to say that when Gerrard starts playing well we will start winning again, but this is not/should not be the case. Sure, he is an important player for us but we ARE a genuinely capable side without him. He is not at the root of our problems and isn't the definite solution

[alunevans]

Exact-a-****ing-lut-ly!

Gerrard is off form, and suddenly we're bashing him left, right, and ****ing center. Terrible. There's hardly any vitriol reserved for Rafa, who seems nigh on untouchable. Our problems stretch much wider than one player i'm afraid.

Bashing our most gifted player of a generation is hardly helpful, in fact its reminiscent of another cantankerous old ****, namely Ian St. John!

Walk on the through the storm. Yeah right. :whatever:

[alunevans]

I think its a bit rich to knock Gerrard to be honest, he's been our best player now for about 4 seasons. Sure he's going through a poor spell but everything wrong in the team isn't down to him.

Is SG better than Souness, yes he is. He's the best LFC player I've seen & I've been watching the Reds since the mid 1970's.

I disagree on the last sentence but frankly mate we're splitting hairs there because I think Gerrard is the most exciting Liverpool player in 20 years.

But I agree with everything else you've said.

[Bob]

I suggest you go back and read the original posting. It's about a lack of winners, and players not taking responsbility. It's perfectly reasonable comment to make and was patently evident yesterday.

We'll not agree on this, like we didn't when you brought up the first Gerrard/Souness comparison thread.

I'd say though that Gerrard, league trophy aside, has a more than decent pedigree as a winner. Certainly more than anyone else in our team yesterday so again i fail to see your need to pin-point him for ridicule. Is it cause he's captain? Well again IMO he's more suitable than anyone else in the squad - Carra hardly covered himself in glory yesterday either.

Gerrard's grabbed us by the scruff of the neck many times in the past. He's failing to do that at the moment, granted, 'perhaps' he's disillusioned at the current managerial regime like the rest of us.

Oh, and for the record. Kuyt's no Daglish either.

[Bob]

That's not necessarily what I was getting at. It's just that most people seem to fall back on Gerrard in these times of desperation and it seems like a nice quick fix to say that when Gerrard starts playing well we will start winning again, but this is not/should not be the case. Sure, he is an important player for us but we ARE a genuinely capable side without him. He is not at the root of our problems and isn't the definite solution

Sure. I know. I agreed, and expanded somewhat

My words are not yours. But you articularly explained that. I agree with your sentiment for the record, just saw no need on repeating them.