No winners in the team

[Tom]

We'll not agree on this, like we didn't when you brought up the first Gerrard/Souness comparison thread.

I'd say though that Gerrard, league trophy aside, has a more than decent pedigree as a winner. Certainly more than anyone else in our team yesterday so again i fail to see your need to pin-point him for ridicule. Is it cause he's captain? Well again IMO he's more suitable than anyone else in the squad - Carra hardly covered himself in glory yesterday either.

Gerrard's grabbed us by the scruff of the neck many times in the past. He's failing to do that at the moment, granted, 'perhaps' he's disillusioned at the current managerial regime like the rest of us.

Oh, and for the record. Kuyt's no Daglish either.

Hang on a minute, who's ridiculing Gerrard. I'm certainly not. Please don't put words into my mouth.

As far as i can see the only person pinpointing individuals is you by blaming Rafa for everthing. As for your "like the rest of us" comment...like the rest of who precisely?

[Bob]

Hang on a minute, who's ridiculing Gerrard. I'm certainly not. Please don't put words into my mouth.

As far as i can see the only person pinpointing individuals is you by blaming Rafa for everthing. As for your "like the rest of us" comment...like the rest of who precisely?

My argument was that Gerrard isn't half the player that Souness was.

By saying the above, and claiming we have no winners in our team, equates to more or the less the same thing as ridicule in my book. Given that i rate Gerrard as having a better all round game to Souness.

As for the, "like the rest of us" comment, i'm not into naming names. But personally, i've found Rafa's selection and tactics to be more than a bit off-the-boil this season. Others agree, find them for yourself.

By the way, my disagreement with you on this Gerrard/Souness issue is not aimed at you specifically, sorry if it comes across personal, as that is not the intention.

[Bob]

Oh, and on Rafa, he's certainly the most culpable for this poor start to the season in my book. But by no means the only one. However you could argue that the form of certain players is an effect reaction to Rafa's managerial decisions thus far.

[Tom]

By saying the above, and claiming we have no winners in our team, equates to more or the less the same thing as ridicule in my book. Given that i rate Gerrard as having a better all round game to Souness.

Sorry that's bollocks. Saying that Souness is a better player that Gerrard is an OPINION. It doesn't ridicule gerrade in any sense of the word.

And on that performance yesterday we didn't have any leaders on the pitch. If we did I'd gratefully be proved wrong. Again you take my wider point out of context. In the most important match of the season, no liverpool player put in any kind of performance. I've been watching us play the mancs since 1969. That was the worse performance I've ever seen. I reserve the right to criticise this or any other liverpool team, after all I've been helping pay their wages for nearly 40 years.

As for the, "like the rest of us" comment, i'm not into naming names. But personally, i've found Rafa's selection and tactics to be more than a bit off-the-boil this season. Others agree, find them for yourself.

We'd be stuffed with Rafa. I'm quite astonished by your comments. Some people need to take a reality check. We're not going to win the league until we have inward finance. Thrashing about blaming rafa for this that and the other, isn't going to change that fact.

[NICKZS]

Sure. I know. I agreed, and expanded somewhat

My words are not yours. But you articularly explained that. I agree with your sentiment for the record, just saw no need on repeating them.

Cool

[Tom]

Oh, and on Rafa, he's certainly the most culpable for this poor start to the season in my book. But by no means the only one. However you could argue that the form of certain players is an effect reaction to Rafa's managerial decisions thus far.

Sorry i find the modern football fan and the lynch-mob, tabloid atitude tedius in the extreme.

No point in carrying on this debate.

[Bob]

Sorry i find the modern football fan and the lynch-mob, tabloid atitude tedius in the extreme.

No point in carrying on this debate.

:whatever:

I make my own mind up thank you. But it's pointless trying to explain that to someone with fingers in their ears.

Ps. I haven't bought/read a tabloid paper in nigh-on 8 years. Does that make nearly as elitist as you?

[Morph]

It's amazing the amount of infighting that goes on in forums when we loose, if thats whats happening on here can what you imagine whats happening at melwood today, no wonder the teams in the pits.

[kopdan]

I am at a loss to understand the term winner here.

I wouldnt class Saha as a winner yet he showed more willing than Cowt

I wouldnt class Vidic as a winner yet he did more than Carra.

Surely its up to the manager to rouse his players for battle and even so, you'd think they would be up for Utd without need of help.

Lets not forget, the majority of this team came back twice in cup finals to win major honours so we know they have the desire and willing in them.

Something this time around is not right and I certainly feel its Rafa related. Could the split be true, could he actually be close to leaving?

[Bob]

It's amazing the amount of infighting that goes on in forums when we loose, if thats whats happening on here can what you imagine whats happening at melwood today, no wonder the teams in the pits.

There's a fair amount of that at play. However, i take exception at being patronised.

[Morph]

I imagine Stevie G is strutting his stuff around the training ground telling everyone how Rafa has lost the plot, and that he's got to leave early to cover up for his wife's previous misdemeanors.

[alunevans]

It's amazing the amount of infighting that goes on in forums when we loose, if thats whats happening on here can what you imagine whats happening at melwood today, no wonder the teams in the pits.

To be honest, if players are taking lumps out of each other today then I'll be pleased. It will at least show they give a toss and demand more of each other than we've got the last few games. I don't think it'd do any harm if that happened and people realised what it means to play for Liverpool Football Club is not craven surrender.

[alunevans]

I am at a loss to understand the term winner here.

I wouldnt class Saha as a winner yet he showed more willing than Cowt

I wouldnt class Vidic as a winner yet he did more than Carra.

Surely its up to the manager to rouse his players for battle and even so, you'd think they would be up for Utd without need of help.

Lets not forget, the majority of this team came back twice in cup finals to win major honours so we know they have the desire and willing in them.

Something this time around is not right and I certainly feel its Rafa related. Could the split be true, could he actually be close to leaving?

What split?

[kopdan]

stories of a rift between him and Gerrard / other players.

[Morph]

To be honest, if players are taking lumps out of each other today then I'll be pleased. It will at least show they give a toss and demand more of each other than we've got the last few games. I don't think it'd do any harm if that happened and people realised what it means to play for Liverpool Football Club is not craven surrender.

i agree but if it's happening regularly then the morale is going to be down.