Birmingham Away Build Up

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I can appreciate the whole 'season starts on Sunday ' thing.
I just hope the points dropped before Sunday don't come back and haunt us...

[-V-]

I agree that win on Sunday would certainly be a big stepping stone but I'm concerned albeit we are in the different universe in terms of quality of players individually, as a team I don't think we have any advantage.

Bunch of our guys never or rarely played together and I am worried we'll be very sloppy and hesitant to push forward from the get go.

Too many times last year we had tendencies to start pressing when it was already too late to either come back or take a lead and the beginning of this season, so far, does not look much different.

Imo we'll need to get more possessions and better ball control and ball distribution as we have so few scoring chances and that aspect of our game will need an instant improvement.

I also think we will have to finally get some luck on our side cause that seems to be working against us.

On the note that 5 out 15 points would be a disaster I would consider that in the context of games we played and next 9 games coming.

We'd play 3 out of 4 top teams (don't think Spurs will have a great season) in first 5 weeks and for me 5 next games (Sunderland, B'pool, Everton, Blackburn and Bolton) will have much greater impact on this season.

If we get 15 out of 15 in those 5 games (I see no reason why we shouldn't) we will have 20 out of 30 (if we only get a point vs Brum and Scum), which should put us easily in top 4-5 and give us a lot of confidence for the game against Chavs, which we play at home.

3 games after Chelsea are against Wigan, Stoke City and Hammers and we could easily win all those games too and then you never know.

My point is that we cannot ride off the season so early if we only get a point on Sunday and lose to Mancs.

If would be great if we get more out of those 2 games but imo it would not be that horrific if we only get a single point.

As a club/team from top to bottom we need to stop making excuses. Its pathetic. We have a team of international stars. The season started many weeks ago, ****ing time to get in gear and start winning matches, especially against the likes of birmingham.

Regardless of how we play as a team, the main thing in matches like this is who battles the hardest and who has the most passion.

[Gibbo]

what are the chances of Hleb playing?
will be interesting to see if he is the same player from his Arsenal days

[little dave hedgehog]

what are the chances of Hleb playing?
will be interesting to see if he is the same player from his Arsenal days

0.

he's already crocked.

[Craig_H]

As a club/team from top to bottom we need to stop making excuses. Its pathetic. We have a team of international stars. The season started many weeks ago, ****ing time to get in gear and start winning matches, especially against the likes of birmingham.

Regardless of how we play as a team, the main thing in matches like this is who battles the hardest and who has the most passion.

Agree with every word.

[DannyMan2006]

We don't know for sure that he initially planned on playing 4-2-3-1, just internet rumour (albeit one that had got the team right for the previous two games). It isn't Black and White at all. Please don't patronise like you are some kind of football sage....you're not.

The fact remains, whatever the circumstances, a 4-4-2 for that game was the major reason why we were so comfortably beaten. City never had to get out of second gear and really taught us a lesson.

Blaming all three goals on Agger (though he did have a poor game, no doubt in part to his recent concussion) shows your refusal to admit or lack of understanding of why we were so comfortably outplayed. City were able to shift the ball around the midfield with impunity. Roy ****ed up simple as.

Apologies for cutting some of your post, I'm on my iPhone and can't quote it all.

Anyhow, I still find it hard to understand why you will not accept masch dropping out as the reason he changed the formation. I don't think that point can be any clearer.

I also think that if you did watch the game you would see Our full backs were never out numbered, it was always 1v1 or 2v2 , or even in our favour numbers wise. That said, we lost 3-0 so it is clear Roy got it wrong somewhere. I'm happy to agree 4231 would have been the best way to go. I only ever mentioned reasons why Roy changed it and why Roy might have decided on 442.

I never said I agreed with him. The only thing I ever said was masch was the reason he changed it, and the poor performance was not purely down to us selecting a 442 formation.

[DannyMan2006]

Two great posts by V.

He is spot on, we need 3 points v Brum. Will be very difficult though as they haven't lost at home in like 16 games. That is fantastic . It will in any case be a very close game. They hardly ever concede but then they don't score much either. They're also missing their dead ball specialist in Seb Larsson - he contributes alot of goals.

I think we are unlucky to have faced so many tough teams before we have gelled. Drawing with arsenal and losing at man city is no great shame, nor would a draw v brum and defeat to man utd. But we can't just accept results like these. All well and good if we beat the teams we should be beating, but there is never any guarantees of that, especially as 5 points from 15 would be low.

I think we need a minimum 3 points from our next two games, but Id be feeling much better with 4 points. Drop to many points early on and the gap can start getting too big.

[Ben_Itez]

Apologies for cutting some of your post, I'm on my iPhone and can't quote it all.

Anyhow, I still find it hard to understand why you will not accept masch dropping out as the reason he changed the formation. I don't think that point can be any clearer.

I also think that if you did watch the game you would see Our full backs were never out numbered, it was always 1v1 or 2v2 , or even in our favour numbers wise. That said, we lost 3-0 so it is clear Roy got it wrong somewhere. I'm happy to agree 4231 would have been the best way to go. I only ever mentioned reasons why Roy changed it and why Roy might have decided on 442.

I never said I agreed with him. The only thing I ever said was masch was the reason he changed it, and the poor performance was not purely down to us selecting a 442 formation.

I've never said Masch dropping out wasn't the reason he changed it. I just don't understand why he changed it so drastically especially when Poulsen was in the original ' supposed' line up. I find it incredible that such an experienced coach could be so tactically naive.

I was at the game and i've not seen our full backs exposed one on one so many times....i never said they were outnumbered. With a winger like Johnson one on one is more than enough for him to inflict damage. As i've already stated what was most worrying was how easy it was for City and it seemed to me they never got out of second gear.

Anyway you seem to be agreeing with me now that 4-4-2 (esp with Ngog and Torres up front and Kuyt and Jova as wingers) was a crazily bad idea. Yes it wasn't the only reason we lost 3-0 but it was IMO the major contributing factor.

Our tactics against West Brom were equally baffling and ended up with them having more possession and chances(better ones too). We were sitting unbelievably deep and attempting to hit them on the counter, against West Brom ffs. The only reason we won was because of Nando's clinical finishing.

Let's hope we see some improvement against Birmingham but i'm not holding my breath.

[DannyMan2006]

I've never said Masch dropping out wasn't the reason he changed it. I just don't understand why he changed it so drastically especially when Poulsen was in the original ' supposed' line up. I find it incredible that such an experienced coach could be so tactically naive.

I was at the game and i've not seen our full backs exposed one on one so many times....i never said they were outnumbered. With a winger like Johnson one on one is more than enough for him to inflict damage. As i've already stated what was most worrying was how easy it was for City and it seemed to me they never got out of second gear.

Anyway you seem to be agreeing with me now that 4-4-2 (esp with Ngog and Torres up front and Kuyt and Jova as wingers) was a crazily bad idea. Yes it wasn't the only reason we lost 3-0 but it was IMO the major contributing factor.

Our tactics against West Brom were equally baffling and ended up with them having more possession and chances(better ones too). We were sitting unbelievably deep and attempting to hit them on the counter, against West Brom ffs. The only reason we won was because of Nando's clinical finishing.

Let's hope we see some improvement against Birmingham but i'm not holding my breath.

I'm glad you are agreeing with my point at last, or at least making it clear.

On the point of 442, we were all suprised. The major contributing factor to us losing was our players playing badly, but certainley 4231 would have helped them more and covered up some of their failings.

Against West Brom we won so I'm not too bothered. But the performances against them, as it was against Trabzonspur, was poor. In fact every display this season where we've had 11v11 has been poor. But I wouldn't hold your breath on it getting better anytime soon. I would expect it to take until at least late October before we start performing.

The only concern at this stage is getting the results. ATM we've probably got the minimum points i would have hoped for at this stage, and I think we need aq win at Birmingham to get our heads above water again.

We've had tougher fixtures than Spurs, City and Villa (indeed anyone so far), so come out of the next two games within two points of them or so and I'd say that's job done. Then we can look to the games we should be looking at winning and then concentrate on getting our form up.

[Ben_Itez]

I'm glad you are agreeing with my point at last, or at least making it clear.

On the point of 442, we were all suprised. The major contributing factor to us losing was our players playing badly, but certainley 4231 would have helped them more and covered up some of their failings.

Against West Brom we won so I'm not too bothered. But the performances against them, as it was against Trabzonspur, was poor. In fact every display this season where we've had 11v11 has been poor. But I wouldn't hold your breath on it getting better anytime soon. I would expect it to take until at least late October before we start performing.

The only concern at this stage is getting the results. ATM we've probably got the minimum points i would have hoped for at this stage, and I think we need aq win at Birmingham to get our heads above water again.

We've had tougher fixtures than Spurs, City and Villa (indeed anyone so far), so come out of the next two games within two points of them or so and I'd say that's job done. Then we can look to the games we should be looking at winning and then concentrate on getting our form up.

I'm not agreeing with your point. Obviously something had to change when Masch pulled out. You seemed to be justifying Roy's change to 4-4-2 because of the Masch situation and saying he had to go 4-4-2 which he clearly didn't. IMO the formation was the the major contributing factor to our defeat not the performance of the players as you think. We'll have to disagree on that one.

Anyway we're going round in circles.....i think we can both agree that we were gash against City and need to improve both tactically and individually

[danperkins]

Wrong thread but get the **** in Everton, 3-3!!! Great result for us

[banditos]

Wrong thread but get the **** in Everton, 3-3!!! Great result for us

I laughed maniacally when the Everton's equaliser went in. ****ing hilarious.

[Rudo]

As far as i'm concerned this is a must win game in our quest for a top 8 finish.

[Pablo]

Apologies if this has already been posted. Leaked team for tomorrow:

Reina johnson carra skrtel konchesky maxi poulson lucas jovanovic gerrard torres

[Craig_H]

If that's true, i'm disappointed that Meireles isnt starting. Torres and Gerrard are the only two goal threats in that lineup.