Liverpool vs Birmingham match thread

[little dave hedgehog]

every time i watch us lately, i spend at least 10 minutes thinking "all right, **** it. sell everyone and start again."

is that wrong? i've not seen such a lack of desire from a liverpool team since....ever.

[wiw]

every time i watch us lately, i spend at least 10 minutes thinking "all right, **** it. sell everyone and start again."

is that wrong? i've not seen such a lack of desire from a liverpool team since....ever.

We do seem to play like a team that are utterly ****ed off with playing with each other. Same old **** and they all must know it

[DannyMan2006]

It's really worrying me, we're going in the complete opposite direction to which Rafa was starting (trying) to take us

Roy wants the full backs to get forward, the only difference is Roy only wants to see one full back attacking at any one time, whilst Rafa was happy for both to bomb on at the same time.

Rafa was happy for both FB's to get forward as he wanted his two DM's to sit and protect all the time, so he would always ahve 4 back.

Roy wants only one to go forward and leave a line of three at the back, with one DM holding (Poulsen or Lucas) making a 4 at the back and one supporting the attack (Gerrard/Meireles).

So both systems had 4 at the back and 6 supporting the attack (though of course neither would be gun-ho and be silly about getting men forwards).

-----

I wasn't a fan of Rafas methods as IMO it left us lacking through the middle, though if Aquilani had adapted his idea of a deeper lying playmaker who supported the attack may have been more evident. And he may have switched to what Roys methods will no doubt be.

I think after the Man Utd game we'll start seeing results.

[DannyMan2006]

every time i watch us lately, i spend at least 10 minutes thinking "all right, **** it. sell everyone and start again."

is that wrong? i've not seen such a lack of desire from a liverpool team since....ever.

i said the same thing today, which is why I posted a more in depth look at things. If I though today was what we would witness for the rest of the season I would be very depressed. Thankfully, I think things will change very soon.

[wiw]

Roy wants the full backs to get forward, the only difference is Roy only wants to see one full back attacking at any one time, whilst Rafa was happy for both to bomb on at the same time.

Rafa was happy for both FB's to get forward as he wanted his two DM's to sit and protect all the time, so he would always ahve 4 back.

Roy wants only one to go forward and leave a line of three at the back, with one DM holding (Poulsen or Lucas) making a 4 at the back and one supporting the attack (Gerrard/Meireles).

So both systems had 4 at the back and 6 supporting the attack (though of course neither would be gun-ho and be silly about getting men forwards).

-----

I wasn't a fan of Rafas methods as IMO it left us lacking through the middle, though if Aquilani had adapted his idea of a deeper lying playmaker who supported the attack may have been more evident. And he may have switched to what Roys methods will no doubt be.

I think after the Man Utd game we'll start seeing results.

Thanks for explaining it for me. I personally think Roy's way demands more from our frankly average midfield. Whatever to be honest. Can't be arsed discussing it

[little dave hedgehog]

Thanks for explaining it for me. I personally think Roy's way demands more from our frankly average midfield. Whatever to be honest. Can't be arsed discussing it

[little dave hedgehog]

actually, i thought poulsen has improved since we first saw him.

the problem is that we used to have some decent, average, good players, etc, but they were playing in a side that featured truly special players. in mascherano and alonso we had two central midfielders who have helped to define the roles they play in a squad, and the way people talk about those roles in general. if someone says "that guy is this side's lucas" rather than "this side's alonso"--that's not even a compliment. the game is won and lost in the center of the pitch, which is why with the players we have now, we're just about always worth a draw. and we will be until we have a solid side with more than one remarkable player who's in form at any given time. hopefully in the cm positions.

[cream]

With having Cole and Meireles available, Roy should have no excuse for playing that pathetic excuse of a midfield ever again.

[little dave hedgehog]

also lucas needs yet another haircut.

[Molby]

------------------Reina----------------
Johnson-----Carra-----Agger-----Konch
-------------Gerrard--Poulsen----------
Maxi--------------Meireles---------Cole
----------------Torres-----------------

But I think we'll see:

------------------Reina----------------
Johnson-----Carra-----Skrtel------Konch
-------------Gerrard---Poulsen---------
Maxi--------------Cole-------Jovanovic
----------------Torres-----------------

I don't understand how this man is even a professional footballer - I've never seen Maxi doing anything remotely creative -

I'd personally like to see Babel on the right side, but apart from that - i think you're 1st team would be on the money..

[-V-]

Its exactly the same situation as last season. The fans can see that the manager's decisions are completely ridiculous yet the manager can't see the problem. Its unreal, how can both Hodgson and Benitez be this negative and blind?

[DannyMan2006]

actually, i thought poulsen has improved since we first saw him.

the problem is that we used to have some decent, average, good players, etc, but they were playing in a side that featured truly special players. in mascherano and alonso we had two central midfielders who have helped to define the roles they play in a squad, and the way people talk about those roles in general. if someone says "that guy is this side's lucas" rather than "this side's alonso"--that's not even a compliment. the game is won and lost in the center of the pitch, which is why with the players we have now, we're just about always worth a draw. and we will be until we have a solid side with more than one remarkable player who's in form at any given time. hopefully in the cm positions.

Poulsen looks better because he hadn't played a game when he joined us and is only now getting up to speed fitness wise.

The balance of our midfield needs to be one holding and one creating. Poulsen and Lucas can only hold, that is why we've failed. They won't last.

With having Cole and Meireles available, Roy should have no excuse for playing that pathetic excuse of a midfield ever again.

Agreed 100%.

I've no idea what we'll see in cup games, but in the league I don't think we will see Lucas and Poulsen together again unless we are unlucky enough to have two of Gerrard/Meireles/Cole missing at the same time.

[DannyMan2006]

Its exactly the same situation as last season. The fans can see that the manager's decisions are completely ridiculous yet the manager can't see the problem. Its unreal, how can both Hodgson and Benitez be this negative and blind?

Rafa I was at a loss with.

Hodgson, I will see what he does once he has the creative players available.

[Craig_H]

Dire stuff today, i dont want to say a lot because it's just depressing. A draw at Brum isnt a disaster, but it was the way we played. So laboured, so slow, so out of ideas, no spark, no tempo, no pressing of the ball, no cohesion, sloppy passing, lack of good width, just no real idea what to do.

I've said it before and nothing is coming close to changing my mind - Lucas and Poulsen are a chasm away from being good enough. They just offer nothing. We struggle to find Gerrard and Torres up top, and this problem largely stems from the fact that Lucas & Poulsen cant pass water. They're our distribution method from defence to attack, and my god, are we ****ed because of that. We could maybe get away with one of them playing, as long as he's next to a proper footballer who can play, move and pass the ball well and with purpose. I just hope Miereles is good enough.

Agree with Shaggy about johnson, i just hope there isnt another sunday-papers scandal story on the way, because the way he's playing, he looks like someone who has something majorly screwing with his head.

And Nando just doesnt look right, i dont think he's injured or unfit, but he just doesnt look like he's enjoying his football. He's lacking confidence and everything seems to be a chore for him right now. He needs to step it up and mentally speaking, he has to be a man here. None of us like being **** but the way to come through it is to be strong in the mind, work hard and make the right decisions. He's not doing any of those things.

But i'm still not reaching for the noose, because we have had a horribly tricky start and at the moment, our mentality is weak & leaving us vulnerable, hence why we went to Brum today without a winning mindset, and just keen to ensure we didnt lose. I really hate that mentality, but i'm clinging to the thought that it's just temporary while Roy finds his feet and gets to know the players - and while we gradually get our heads round this difficult set of fixtures. After Old Trafford, we have an easier run, and by god, it better start to improve. As things stand, i think top 6 is the absolute maximum we can achieve. 4th is there to be got, because whilst the top 3 are miles ahead, nobody else is really standing out as prime candidate for 4th. Spurs frailties are already being exposed, and that's before the CL has begun. And City - well, i think logically, as time goes by and they settle & gel, they SHOULD be outstanding candidates for 4th because of the depth and quality they have - but somehow, they just dont look reliable at all. I dont think Mancini will last much after Christmas, personally. But we'll see.

So on that basis, it's frustrating that we dont look capable of setting down a marker and really going for it in terms of getting back into the top 4. But as i said, i remain hopeful that the current problems are temporary. We are still adjusting and we didnt have helpful fixtures during this period, so a draw at Brum will suffice.

Which brings me onto the reason we got a point today - Pepe Reina. What more can i say? Words dont do it anymore. So

[Rich]

Best keeper in the league and probably Europe.