Utd - Liverpool post match

[Arn]

The main reason we lost this game is because united wanted it more. I actually believe we have the better team player for player but unfortunately our team lacks any real heart. United players play like they are playing to keep their place in the team. Most of our players play like they have a god given right to be out there. There was such a lack of urgency to win this game it was shocking. Especially in the first half. United didn't even have to play well to win the game and lets be honest the 3-2 scoreline was kind to us.

As a team we were a shambles and there we some terrible individual performances. Torres was shocking once again. I cant remember the last time I seen him actually sprint? All strikers go through lean spells but sometimes that is because they are trying too hard. That is not the case for Torres. If any other player was playing the way he has this season they would be getting slaughtered. I like Torres but he needs to kop on fast and stop all this sulking and moaning. I wonder if Roy has the balls to drop him for the Sunderland game? Maybe he should start against Northampton mid week to get him going (if he is bothered).
Gerard and Meireles were the only ones to come out with any credit for that game. The rest were just shocking.

I cant see anything changing for a long time to come. Its going to be a very long and painful season to watch. The best we can hope for is a decent run in one of the cup competitions as anyone can win over 90 minutes on the day.

Either way YNWA

Roy need to show that no one is safe. Carra makes mistake after mistake but he seems to be undroppable. That is why I made the comment that Roy must walk if he isn't ruthless enough to drop Carra. If he isn't doing that then he will most certainly not succeed because it won't be enough pressure on Carra to up his game.

We need competition for places all over the pitch. If a player isn't delivering then he should be benched whoever it is. Right now Carra isn't delivering and should be benched. I doubt that Roy is man enough to do that and that is why we won't play better. Some players are feeling a bit to safe just as you say.

If Roy isn't brave enough to drop a Liverpool legend like Carra then he will fail in the same way Rafa did. Not dropping certain players even when they didn't deliver was Rafa's biggest mistake.

[Rich]

I'd say he's brought more of the "Under Siege" mentality where most of our players are too busy fantasizing about the scene were Erika Eleniak pops out of the cake topless, rather than concentrating on defending.

I went to the cinema twice as a lad to watch that film, just for that scene...

[red g]

You see to me the play on the pitch has to have a direction

Rafa set his teams up a certain way and I could see and understand that and whilst I found it incredibly frustrating at times watching it, I could at least acknowledge the general principles behind it

Under Roy we have no shape, no organisation, our pressing is non-existant (as is our defending of set pieces)

Now I could understand that if we were trying to play attacking football. Yet the defenders are just hoofing it, Carragher is always guilty of this, but Skrtel & Konchesky are now compounding the problem. It is very worrying indeed to hear Aggers comments over the weekend "The manager's philosophy is that we pay football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style. I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground, and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he (Hodgson) doesn't want to play me because of that".

"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who hoofs the ball at every opportunity."

IF we continue to play with defenders just getting rid of the ball asap we are literally surrendering over possession each time we are winning it back

This only then puts more pressure on the back four

Roy has to decide are we going to surrender possession and defend for our lives (in which case he needs to improve us drastically at the back) or we keep defending poorly but mitigate it by dominating and controlling the possession

missed that bit in bold and that is very worrying. Its clear though that if Hodgson prefers Skrtel over Agger any idea of playing football from the back has indeed died.

[Tee]

We just do not have the players for 'hoof' football. Anyway, the day that becomes our gameplan is the day my love of football will die.

[Imy]

You see to me the play on the puitch has to have a direction

Rafa set his teams up a certain way and I could see and understand that and whilst I found it incredibly frustrating at times watching it, I could at least acknowledge the general principles behind it

Under Roy we have no shape, no organisation, our pressing is non-existant (as is our defending of set pieces)

Now I could understand that if we were trying to play attacking football. Yet the defenders are just hoofing it, Carragher is always guilty of this, but Skrtel & Konchesky are now compounding the problem. It is very worrying indeed to hear Aggers comments over the weekend "The manager's philosophy is that we pay football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style. I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground, and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he (Hodgson) doesn't want to play me because of that".

"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who hoofs the ball at every opportunity."

IF we continue to play with defenders just getting rid of the ball asap we are literally surrendering over possession each time we are winning it back

This only then puts more pressure on the back four

Roy has to decide are we going to surrender possession and defend for our lives (in which case he needs to improve us drastically at the back) or we keep defending poorly but mitigate it by dominating and controlling the possession

Hoofing can work (i know it's **** to watch), Wimbledon were fairly successful with it as were Chelsea in more recent times, but they key is a big strong forward(s) who can hold the ball, too many time a long hoof would come straight back (with interest) as Torres and whoever else could not battle physically with the 3 Utd defenders.

[Craig_H]

How animated is Roy during the match? Anyone go yesterday? Everytime they show him he seems to be sat down rather than be active on the touchline.

It is still a tad early to completly write him off but the signs are worrying.

I cant say i noticed him much to be honest - i didnt look towards the bench much. Having said that, if he'd been out in the technical area barking orders, i'd have noticed him - as i did with Rafa last season.

[Imy]

How animated is Roy during the match? Anyone go yesterday? Everytime they show him he seems to be sat down rather than be active on the touchline.

It is still a tad early to completly write him off but the signs are worrying.

He looked well pissed off after they scored the 3rd

[Craig_H]

From what you've said I don't really see how you conclude we were anything but somewhere between uninspiring and crap for almost the whole game. I agree their second sparked a change in approach, meaning we somehow got back to 2-2 without, as I recall, creating a single chance from open play, but even then, as indicated afterwards by our captain himself, we were playing to hang on for the draw.

I know being at the game means you can see more than you can on TV but I wonder if the feeling of excitement generated by the comeback - a feeling which can only be heightened if you're there in person - might be shrouding the glaring deficiencies in both tactics, ability and even character.

I hope you're right and there are signs for optimism but, apart from Gerrard's commitment (which I feel has gone up a couple of notches since last season - he was pretty good yesterday I thought), I've yet to see them.

All fair points Neil. You're probably right that the excitement of the comeback and the positivity surrounding the atmosphere after we'd got the penalty might've clouded things a litte. But i also take into account the whole context of the day - eg, being away to Man Utd off the back of a highly disappointing start, leaving us with minimal confidence and a lack of belief or positivity going into the game.

Add to that the fact that i was expecting us to potentially get a tonking

All things considered, i'm quietly upbeat and feeling more positive than i was on Sunday morning.

[Lecter]

Yeah unfortunatley I agree with this.

I think we were talking a few weeks back Lec and I said I wanted to wait a bit before passing judgement on Roy. Well, so far I'm worried, really worried.

You see to me the play on the pitch has to have a direction

Rafa set his teams up a certain way and I could see and understand that and whilst I found it incredibly frustrating at times watching it, I could at least acknowledge the general principles behind it

Under Roy we have no shape, no organisation, our pressing is non-existant (as is our defending of set pieces)

Now I could understand that if we were trying to play attacking football. Yet the defenders are just hoofing it, Carragher is always guilty of this, but Skrtel & Konchesky are now compounding the problem. It is very worrying indeed to hear Aggers comments over the weekend "The manager's philosophy is that we pay football in attack, but not at the back. That's not my style. I'm not that type of player. I like to keep the ball on the ground, and that's what I'll keep doing. Time will show if he (Hodgson) doesn't want to play me because of that".

"I'll try to change myself, but I will never be a player who hoofs the ball at every opportunity."

IF we continue to play with defenders just getting rid of the ball asap we are literally surrendering over possession each time we are winning it back

This only then puts more pressure on the back four

Roy has to decide are we going to surrender possession and defend for our lives (in which case he needs to improve us drastically at the back) or we keep defending poorly but mitigate it by dominating and controlling the possession

[Kenneth]

FFS exactly! We let them put a dozen ****ing crosses in in 45 minutes and alarm bells aren't ringing for you?

Virtually all of them were down Konchesky's wing by the way, and most delivered under no pressure whatsoever.

I disagree only two caused us problems, every single one had me nervous as they won almost every header in the box, and it was panic stations almost every single time.

If you are fairly weak aerially as a defensive unit, and we clearly are, then you need to stop the balls coming into the box whenever possible. We just didn't do that at all.

I'm not saying we defended well, or that we didn't incite crosses, just that this ea due to our overall setup, not because konchesky or Johnson lost their man on a few occasions. When a team invites pressure like we did in the first half, of course there are going to be balls into the box to deal with. focusing the criticism on Konchesky is missing the point IMO. Under the circumstances, I don't think he was as bad as is being made out, that's all.

[Dalglish]

Don't know if this is the right place to bring this up, or if it's been done before;

Is there a case for playing a Roy Evans-style 3-5-2 in games like this with Agger, Skrtel and Carra in the middle of defence, Johnson more of a right wing-back and Konchesky or Aurelio left wing back. This helps cover for Johnson and Konch's defensive frailties.

Then you could have Poulsen and Meireles in centre mid, with Gerrard and Cole further forward supporting Torres.

Just a thought

right now there's a case for Roy Evans

[Tee]

How animated is Roy during the match? Anyone go yesterday? Everytime they show him he seems to be sat down rather than be active on the touchline.

It is still a tad early to completly write him off but the signs are worrying.

[red g]

Should have given the gig to the King. Really was what we needed right now.

Or someone as tactically astute as Arsene Wenger, someone with a bigger head than Mourinho. Step forward Sam Allardyce........ He may not have the CV but you only need to ask him how good he is to know he is the very best.

[dww]

Roy is playing 4-2-3-1 without attacking fullbacks. That is probably why we play so narrow. Don't have a clue who will create the width in a 4-2-3-1 when the fullbacks stay back.

We are also very passive in our pressing game. It's not like we hunt them down to win the ball back.

We have now played a few competitive games with Roy as manager and I have still not seen a pattern of how Roy want us to play. No sign of a game plan at all.

Glimpses for a few minutes is really all we got so far.

I don't think you have to have attacking fullbacks to make a 4-2-3-1 work. You do need them or at least one winger though. In the last two PL games we have had no one even vaguely looking to give that option on a regular basis.

Cole actually looked pretty decent on the left actually - at least moving out occasionally to make room in the middle.

Must admit I thought the same yesterday. We had some spells when we kept the ball quite nicely, certainly better than a lot of the hoofing we've seen lately, but it was just passing for passing's sake. We did little or nothing with it. There is no discernible pattern of play as far as I can see.

I'd go along with that. I think though there were signs of things we could build on in those periods of possession though - which I hadn't seen in previous Hodgson games. If we could move a bit higher up the pitch then I think we would start finding more gaps. Perhaps the obvious fear we had of United was the reason for us not really pushing on. Hopefully against lesser teams Roy will give us a bit more freedom.

[reds123]

Roy's mentality is that of someone who expects to lose big games away from home. His idea of a good result is a draw.

Up to now, you' re right, but how many times Rafa's reds won away vs Arsenal, Man.Ud or Chelsea ?