Liverpool vs Sunderland post match

[DeeTheDog]

How can it be the quality of the squad? Only Barca and Bayern had more players at the world cup. We were outplayed at home by a fourth division reserve team, who man for man we are better than. We followed that up by being outplayed at home by an average premiership team. The only common denominator from both games is the manager. He has presided over our worst start since the 1950s.

It's all well and good for people to spout that we are not Newcastle and dont sack managers after a few games, well simply put Liverpool managers have not performed this poorly. Souness who probably came closest, should have been sacked sooner and perhaps we wouldn't be waiting over twenty years to win the league again.

[erick]

Many people hates Rafa so much that they just want anyone but Rafa.

Roy has acheived only a europa final , same as Robson and McClarin (where are they now?) and with only 1 away win last season, how can people think that he is good enough to manage LFC?

[DannyMan2006]

What is so heart breaking is that lfc have never really had a manager who has performed above his station in the league. In the case of souness and Evans they can't complain as they had plenty of financial backing. Houllier and Benitez can make the case that their main rivals outspent them and it's a fair point.

But other than the odd season we have either under performed or just finished where we would be expected to. You would have thought than in all this time we could have battled above our station on more than the odd occasion we have.

Would have loved to have seen Alonso stay last year and Rafa been given a £20m transfer fund. Reckon we would have won the league then. We seriously need new owners so that the next time we are on the verge of something special we can spend a bit of money and make sure the chance doesn't slip us by.

[DannyMan2006]

How can it be the quality of the squad? Only Barca and Bayern had more players at the world cup. We were outplayed at home by a fourth division reserve team, who man for man we are better than. We followed that up by being outplayed at home by an average premiership team. The only common denominator from both games is the manager. He has presided over our worst start since the 1950s.

It's all well and good for people to spout that we are not Newcastle and dont sack managers after a few games, well simply put Liverpool managers have not performed this poorly. Souness who probably came closest, should have been sacked sooner and perhaps we wouldn't be waiting over twenty years to win the league again.

Hard to argue with this. Obviously our squad has weakened due to the financial constraints, but it is at least good enough for top 6.

And good point on the manager situation. LFC don't tend to sack managers as they normally tend to do okay. I reckon he'll have until we get new owners in though, which is likely towards end of November. He could have turned it around by then, guess we'll find out soon enough.

[Craig_H]

Many people hates Rafa so much that they just want anyone but Rafa.

Roy has acheived only a europa final , same as Robson and McClarin (where are they now?) and with only 1 away win last season, how can people think that he is good enough to manage LFC?

Utter nonsense.

I'd say the vast majority who wanted rafa replaced (myself included) had no ill feelings towards him. If anything, i am incredibly fond of the guy. It was never about 'hate' or 'dislike'.

[red g]

Utter nonsense.

I'd say the vast majority who wanted rafa replaced (myself included) had no ill feelings towards him. If anything, i am incredibly fond of the guy. It was never about 'hate' or 'dislike'.

I loved the guy, still wanted him replaced though.

[calvoboy]

Baffled by the criticism of Roy on here by many for playing 4-4-2 on Saturday. If you call that 4-4-2 then all Rafa ever played was 4-4-2 too. It was roughly a 4-1-3-1-1 style formation if you want to put numbers on it. Poulsen deepest of all midfielders, Gerrard Cole and Merieles in a narrow 3 across midfield, and Kuyt behind Torres. In a 4-4-2 your CMs and CFs continutally move around, yet Poulsen was always our deepest midfielder, and Kuyt was always behind Torres.

The only time we played what you would normally describe as a 4-4-2, with two banks of four and two up front, was when N'Gog came on and we had Gerrard and Merieles in the middle, Cole left, Kuyt right and N'Gog up with Torres.

Similarly, I can't understand the complaint about his use of subs. In previous games, absolutely. His lack of action in a couple of them when we've been struggling has left us all confused. But on Saturday, he made an excellent change when we were 2-1 down, was quickly rewarded with a goal, and we nearly went on to win the game. Slate him for the way we played for 40 mins, and for being 2-1 down in the first place by all means if that's what you want to do, but his subs on Saturday were as good as you could expect.

For some of you Roy can do no right, and that's totally unfair to the guy.

[Craig_H]

For some of you Roy can do no right, and that's totally unfair to the guy.

He's actually being harder on himself than any of us - by producing utterly cringeworthy smalltime post or pre match comments.

And as for 'totally unfair' - it's totally unfair to us, to be humbled at home to a 4th division side.

[calvoboy]

He's actually being harder on himself than any of us - by producing utterly cringeworthy smalltime post or pre match comments.

And as for 'totally unfair' - it's totally unfair to us, to be humbled at home to a 4th division side.

Yes, it is. And criticising him for that result and performance is fair. As is criticising him for his ridiculous pre and post match comments. Criticising him for stuff he hasn't done isn't.

[Lecter]

Baffled by the criticism of Roy on here by many for playing 4-4-2 on Saturday. If you call that 4-4-2 then all Rafa ever played was 4-4-2 too. It was roughly a 4-1-3-1-1 style formation if you want to put numbers on it. Poulsen deepest of all midfielders, Gerrard Cole and Merieles in a narrow 3 across midfield, and Kuyt behind Torres. In a 4-4-2 your CMs and CFs continutally move around, yet Poulsen was always our deepest midfielder, and Kuyt was always behind Torres.

The only time we played what you would normally describe as a 4-4-2, with two banks of four and two up front, was when N'Gog came on and we had Gerrard and Merieles in the middle, Cole left, Kuyt right and N'Gog up with Torres.

Similarly, I can't understand the complaint about his use of subs. In previous games, absolutely. His lack of action in a couple of them when we've been struggling has left us all confused. But on Saturday, he made an excellent change when we were 2-1 down, was quickly rewarded with a goal, and we nearly went on to win the game. Slate him for the way we played for 40 mins, and for being 2-1 down in the first place by all means if that's what you want to do, but his subs on Saturday were as good as you could expect.

For some of you Roy can do no right, and that's totally unfair to the guy.

No way was the make up of that side 4-4-1-1 at the start

Even if it was that (which imo it wasnt) why is he putting Kuyt in the hole instead of our most effective player in that position (Gerrard)

Why is he then subsequently playing a central box to box midfielder wide right (Meireles)

[Lecter]

Yes, it is. And criticising him for that result and performance is fair. As is criticising him for his ridiculous pre and post match comments. Criticising him for stuff he hasn't done isn't.

IMO it was straight 4-4-2 it was the EXACT same system he tried and failed with at Man City

Bringing N'Gog on didnt change the system it changed the personnel

Kuyt went to his usual right midfield berth and Meireles went inside to where he is accustomed to playing

[calvoboy]

No way was the make up of that side 4-4-1-1 at the start

Even if it was that (which imo it wasnt) why is he putting Kuyt in the hole instead of our most effective player in that position (Gerrard)

Why is he then subsequently playing a central box to box midfielder wide right (Meireles)

Both of those were stuipid decisions, I agree. But Kuyt was never in front of Torres, and Poulsen was never in front of Gerrard. Poulsen was playing as a holding midfielder (and doing a terrible job of it), and Kuyt was playing in the hole (doing about as well as you could expect him to do, given he's got none of the required attributes for the role). When N'Gog came on he was right up alongside Torres, and Gerrard and Merieles were playing as two box-to-box CMs in an orthodox 4-4-2.

[Lecter]

Both of those were stuipid decisions, I agree. But Kuyt was never in front of Torres, and Poulsen was never in front of Gerrard. Poulsen was playing as a holding midfielder (and doiing a terrible job of it), and Kuyt was playing in the hole (doing about as well as you could expect him to do, given he's got none of the required attributes for the role). When N'Gog came on he was right up alongside Torres, and Gerrard and Merieles were playing as two box-to-box CMs in an orthodox 4-4-2.

I never said Poulsen was in front of Gerrard. However I saw no differring instructions between the Poulsen / Gerrard combination and the Gerrard / Meireles combination. Neither player was holding and all you changed was the personnel

As for Kuyt even when he played as an out and out striker (in his first season) he'd come deep. That is just his nature. To me the set up was clearly 4-4-2 and that tactic didnt change

[Fredo]

It didn't make sense to start with Meireles on the right, then after 3/4 of the game gone, remove the shockingly poor Poulsen and replace him with Meireles. What did that show? It showed that he got it all wrong and waited that long to change the formation. We didn't have any shape whatsoever when we were attacking, nor when we were defending. There were gaping holes between our lines each time we lost the ball but the most shocking thing is that Hodgson didn't rectify anything until late in the second half and even that is debatable as Sunderland started to run down at that point and we had more space to play and punt long balls in their box.

[calvoboy]

I never said Poulsen was in front of Gerrard. However I saw no differring instructions between the Poulsen / Gerrard combination and the Gerrard / Meireles combination. Neither player was holding and all you changed was the personnel

As for Kuyt even when he played as an out and out striker (in his first season) he'd come deep. That is just his nature. To me the set up was clearly 4-4-2 and that tactic didnt change

Well, I disagree entirely, so I doubt we'll get much further on this...better leave it there