Pack your bags Roy

[Arn]

Oh but so many people are doing.

He underachieved with a strong squad by finishing 7th when we should've finished 4th at least. So he was sacked.

Masses of revisionism later....

He's left a ****e squad and a ****e legacy.

It's laughable.

It's completely valid in the world of danperkins

[Shaggy]

Yes but he's a brain-damaged chimp and everyone knows it.

[Arn]

Yes but he's a brain-damaged chimp and everyone knows it.

Everyone isn't born with a brain you now. Some people only think they are.

[Redspin]

that was said in the match thread and it's clearly bollocks. Look at it again and tell me Coleman was walking

Well he wasn't ****ing sprinting was he smart-arse? How about "ambled nonchalantly by without the remotest possibility of being tackled"? Does that meet with your approval?

[banditos]

It was factually incorrect the first time

I was actually me that made the point the firs time. Thought Konch let the kid get around him far too easily, prticulalrly as he had the help of a tracking midfielder. Not sure why you and Shaggy are claiming otherwise.

'Walked' around him is just a figure of speach BTW.

[Shaggy]

I was actually me that made the point the firs time. Thought Konch let the kid get around him far too easily, prticulalrly as he had the help of a tracking midfielder. Not sure why you and Shaggy are claiming otherwise.

'Walked' around him is just a figure of speach BTW.

I'm not, I thought it was yet more ****ing abysmal defending from £5m Konchesky.

[danperkins]

But back end of last season you were one of the ones advocating sacking Rafa because he wasnt capable of getting the best out of a squad that was clearly better than its finishing position

You cant have it both ways

You are spot on Lec i wanted him gone as he was not getting the best out of the squad, same as Roy isn't. I'm not denying either, i have posted many times at how i wanted Kenny in. Not my fault Roy was appointed but they took a chance and it didn't pay off, certainly wasn't a reason to keep Rafa on his position was untenable mate.

Boards take risks, i was one of those who wanted Rafa out at Christmas as damage limitation, i wanted kenny in to try and recover a Champs League position, but it was decided to give him until the end of the season, it was a risk and ultimately that did not pay off either as we finished 7th and ended up in the fantastic Europa league.

So the board took a risk to keep Rafa on and its backfired, and the board took a risk to appoint Roy... and it also backfired. Maybe Kenny should have been the original choice back in Christmas but sire hindsight and at that jazz.

Whatever way you look at it mistakes have been made in many areas.

[Redspin]

Also, Coleman got lucky as the ball slid under Konchesky's body/legs while diving. And sat up excruciatingly nicely waiting for someone to finish (where the f*ck were our central defenders?). However, not excusing Konchesky he was poor aside from just this incident - like everyone else.

The second goal was a good clearance from Kyriagos and Miereles was supposed to be positioned in case it fell in the centre just outside the area. Had he held his ground he would have been there before Arteta. Not sure what he was thinking moving to the right as the ball was crossed in.

Even as an 11-year old playing for the school team we were told to pick up any spare men on the edge of the box at corners. But Woy's obsession with shirt-tugging, headless chicken, man-to-man marking at corners led to Arteta being in acres of space as everyone else was deciding which shirt to get hold of in the box. Just plain bad defensive organisation any primary school football coach would do better at

[dww]

The thing is that none of the five players directly protecting Reina's goal against Everton have any acceleration of note. It's ridiculous. Obviously Lucas is better than Poulsen in that regard but it was a terrible selection by Roy.

I still think that the biggest problems last season and this are that we don't have players that complement each other. At least last season Mascher swept up in front of the defence quite well and Reina sweeping behind meant that the lack of pace was less of an issue. This season it is like Roy has set out to minimise the effectiveness of the defence.

[5europeancups]

It is absolutely insane.

All these people saying "look at his record" - I suspect none of them actually have, and merely recall the job he did at Fulham.......which, while no doubt decent, wasn't actually as good as the job CHRIS COLEMAN did at Fulham.

Roy's CV is ****e. 12 jobs in 15 years says it all.

Very Good Point. On Average he stays at a club for 1.2 years. Something must be wrong.

[Neil Young]

Right, I'm getting frustrated by the delay. This thread was started yesterday.

Can someone pack his bags for him to speed things along?

[Redspin]

The link is that they both have managed LFC, there is always going to be a contrast drawn.

And you must really be forgetting last season because we lost 21 games or the likes, finished 7th and hence the Europa League misery this season and were a laughing stock. Roy has been useless, he brought some below par signings into an already weak and fragile squad left by Rafa with a couple of seasons worth of kamikaze buys.

Rafa fault with the squad Roy came into, Roy's fault with the languishing league position and the way we have been playing, or not been playing as the case may be. People have short memories thats for sure.

If you honestly believe that Benitez is at fault for the team's position now and we were a laughing stock last season in the way we most definitely are this season, then you're quite clearly delusional. I know you've been a committed Woy apologist, but please get a grip

Benitez was a fine manager trying to do a job with a sell-to-buy policy forced on him from above and managing extensive injuries to key players all last season. Hodgson, on the other hand, is ****ing clueless and is a total disgrace. The sooner he ****s off the sooner we can progress.

Let's hope the owners in meeting the supporters' club today get that message into their heads loud and clear

[banditos]

I'm not, I thought it was yet more ****ing abysmal defending from £5m Konchesky.

Well, operation disagreed at least. Thought you were agreeing with him. Sorry mate. You are clearly a man of excellent judgement and perception.

[Arn]

I don't think danperkins should read this article by Tomkins. It's not good for his health. It's a bit old but filled with FACTS that is FACTS even if hate him or love him.


I was recently asked (on Twitter) whose was bigger, Houllier’s or Benítez’s? (Net spend, I hasten to add.)

As each has (to date) managed the club for six years, it seemed a fair time to ask, although the obvious problem is that Houllier started buying players 12 years ago, when transfer fees were a lot cheaper. And of course, his sales were likewise affected.

That’s where TPI© (Transfer Price Index) comes in. It was created with this kind of question in mind.

(As with any transfer studies, we add the disclaimer that 100% accuracy is virtually impossible, given the obfuscation surrounding some deals and the widely ranging fees depending on which source you use, but we’ve done our utmost to be as close as possible; overall, it’s between 95% and 99% accurate.)

In actual terms, Houllier spent £130.9m on players. In today’s money, adjusted using TPI (i.e football inflation) that equates to £245m. But of course, it’s important to see how much was recouped; more on that in a moment.

In actual terms, Benítez has spent £223m. In today’s money (transfer prices have of course risen since he started buying players in 2004), adjusted using TPI (football inflation) that equates to £278m.

Houllier sold players for an actual amount of £60.3m. Using TPI inflation, that translates to £99.4m.

Benítez has sold players for a total of £159.3m. Using TPI inflation, that translates to £215.1m.

Therefore, Rafa Benítez net spend, when adjusted to inflation, equals£63,550,192, compared with Gérard Houllier’s far greater total of £146,061,083.

On average, using TPI to create an even playing field, Benítez has spent £10.5m net per season, while Houllier spent £24.4m; roughly two-and-a-half times as much. Houllier clearly had more supportive backers than Benítez.

Of course, these figures include money raised by selling players they inherited.

Both men lost around £12m (actual) on local stars who went to Real Madrid (McManaman in 1999, Owen in 2004) for less than their market worth due to contract issues, within one year of the new boss taking over. So that was an early blow to both managers.

However, only 29.5% of Houllier’s income was from selling his own players (such as Heskey, Barmby and Ziege); the rest came from selling his predecessor’s signings, or home-grown talents like Fowler, Thompson and Matteo.

By contrast, Benítez has raised £128.8m TPI (£109.9m actual) from selling his own players: 59.8% of the money he has raised through sales has been from offloading his own purchases – twice as much as with Houllier.

Now, of course, in some cases (such as Robbie Keane and Andrea Dossena), Benítez was selling his own mistakes for a loss. I don’t think there is a manager alive who hasn’t done this (Houllier did so with Ziege, for example), and the key is to get as much as possible, as quickly as possible.

However, a lot of money was raised from selling the likes of Alonso, Sissoko, Bellamy, Crouch, Carson, et al, for a profit; in some cases, after a few years of sterling service.

What’s interesting is that every single player Houllier signed has now left Liverpool FC. They did so for an actual combined price of just £52.6m, or £86.9m when adjusted with TPI.

Benítez has already raised far more than this from his sales, and that’s before (perish the thought) any potential sale of Torres, Reina, Agger, Johnson, Benayoun, Kuyt and Mascherano, who between them, at current value, could raise another £150m.

In fairness to Houllier, players like Hyypia and Hamann left the club on free transfers having served the Reds with distinction, to the point in time when they were too old to sell. None of us would complain if Torres left on a free, aged 33, after seven more years of goals.

Even so, the figures seem to support the view that Benítez has outperformed his predecessor.

Conclusion

In conclusion – as I’ve said before – Benítez has had to sell his own players to raise much of his own transfer funds. He has also raised more money through European progression, and yet despite this, the current squad costs only £143m, between £50m-£100m behind those of Spurs, City, Chelsea and United.

Benítez’s win percentage in the league is 55%, to Houllier’s 49%. But Houllier only had one year of Chelsea’s wealth to contend with; and the Stamford Bridge outfit spent another £100m the summer Benítez arrived.

Houllier had a great United side (1999) and Arsenal’s Invincibles to battle, but Benítez has had to face what Alex Ferguson believes to be a better United team, plus the might of Chelsea (and now City). And of course, when Benítez arrived, that Arsenal side were reigning champions.

Benítez has averaged 72.2 points per season, Houllier managed 65.7 (just 2.7 more points on average than in the ‘disastrous’ season we’ve just witnessed). Houllier qualified for the Champions League three times (once would be for the season after he left), Benítez five. Benítez’s best tally in a season was 86, Houllier’s was 80.

Houllier won four trophies, Benítez two. Benítez won one of the two that really matter, and made another Champions League final.

Houllier did a good job – especially up to 2002 – and Benítez has done a better job.

However, Rafa cannot regularly work miracles, and the more financially adrift the Reds find themselves, the harder it will be to simply tread water, let alone forge ahead. While we’ve just experienced a relatively poor campaign, the financial undermining of the club by Gillett and Hicks preceded it, and people would do well to remember that fact.

CLICKY

[Reece]

Well, operation disagreed at least. Thought you were agreeing with him. Sorry mate. You are clearly a man of excellent judgement and perception.

There is far too much of that around these days. Allardyce said so.