Should he stay or should he go?

[Havors]

I don't understand. Presumably then you've never rated Cole, ever? Cos he's never had a run of games (if any) behind a striker, and has always been deployed coming from the left (or right). He played as an orthodox CM at times for West Ham, and has always been wide for Chelsea and England. Always.

He always come off the bench for chelsea and he always drifted behind the strikers left & right and linked up play. He has however always played on the left for England, and we know how ****e hes been there.

[danperkins]

What we don't want is a managerial merry go round. But we have a get out of jail card for that. Sack Roy and bring Kenny in. NESV didn't appoint him so his failure is connected to the old regime.

Then we bring Kenny in, giving the impression it is in a caretaker role until we identify the right man. If kenny does well, we keep him. If not we replace him and draft in the best possible candidate.

[spud_gun]

Tony Evans from The Times on the BBC at the moment saying Liverpool appointed the wrong man in the summer. Also done his bit in standing up for Rafa and saying he's not to blame to the problems on the park at the moment. Conceded that Rafa bought some bad players but also countered that he bought some excellent players.

[Shaggy]

He always come off the bench for chelsea and he always drifted behind the strikers left & right and linked up play. He has however always played on the left for England, and we know how ****e hes been there.

He was England's best player in the 2006 World Cup.

And he started plenty of games for Chelsea. He was their player of the year a couple of years ago. He'll have done well winning that by coming on as sub every week.

[danperkins]

Tony Evans from The Times on the BBC at the moment saying Liverpool appointed the wrong man in the summer. Also done his bit in standing up for Rafa and saying he's not to blame to the problems on the park at the moment. Conceded that Rafa bought some bad players but also countered that he bought some excellent players.

Fair point he did buy some good players. But the problem being was that over the last "2" seasons Rafa didn't make one single good buy and blew vital funds, hence the squad we had last season or now.

This is blatantly true, and although Roy has has a complete mare and hasn't done himself any favours he was left with a squad full of sub standard wage drains, he done the right thing in offloading certain players but Roy unfortunately didn't get the right players i either, just a ****ing merry go round of sub standard players. Can anyone name one good buy Rafa has made in his last 2 seasons?

[Lecter]

Fair point he did buy some good players. But the problem being was that over the last "2" seasons Rafa didn't make one single good buy and blew vital funds, hence the squad we had last season or now.

This is blatantly true, and although Roy has has a complete mare and hasn't done himself any favours he was left with a squad full of sub standard wage drains, he done the right thing in offloading certain players but Roy unfortunately didn't get the right players i either, just a ****ing merry go round of sub standard players. Can anyone name one good buy Rafa has made in his last 2 seasons?

He blew vital funds

He never ****ing had any

He raised the vast bulk of all the money he spent

Rafa made mistakes in the transfer market with the limited hand he was dealt

Hodgson has done exactly the same

[danperkins]

He blew vital funds

He never ****ing had any

He raised the vast bulk of all the money he spent

Rafa made mistakes in the transfer market with the limited hand he was dealt

Hodgson has done exactly the same

Just for laugh lets have a look at last 3 seasons of player bought by Rafa, this is money spent by Rafa.

Last 3 seasons:

(Jovo)
MaxiPad
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquilani
Sotirios Kyrgiakos
Phillip Degen
Andrea Dossena
Diego Cavalieri
David N'Gog
Robert Keane
Péter Gulácsi
Albert Riera
Martin Skrtel
Andrey Voronin
Krisztián Németh
Nikolay Mihaylov
Lucas Pezzini Leiva
Sebastián Eduardo Leto
Mikel San José
Fernando Torres
Yossi Shai Benayoun
Ryan Guno Babel
Daniel Pacheco
Charles Itandje
Mikel San José
Péter Gulácsi
Damien Plessis



Now i don't know how much that is spent, but Torres is the only stand out player there, Benny did ok when Rafa gave him a chance. Pacheco & Ngog time will tell. If anyone knows the figures i'd be more than curious to know, i'm too lazy. Oh Now add in the wages too!!!!!

And Hodsgon has made some bad buys thus far yup i won't argue with that, Poulsen and Konch are bad buys, whats that 8 million or something? Rafa was kamikaze is the transfer market in his last few seasons and this is why our squad has looked so bad this and last season, 95% of these players offered us nothing in productivity, flopped and drained our wage bill, is this not true? Forget Roy, nobody wanted him here, he is just a blow in and won't be here for much longer but there is no denying the problems that were here waiting for him.

[Havors]

He was England's best player in the 2006 World Cup.

And he started plenty of games for Chelsea. He was their player of the year a couple of years ago. He'll have done well winning that by coming on as sub every week.

Im not saying he isnt a good player. Your missing my point.

[Fernandinho]

Wasn't Reina a Rafa buy????

[Shaggy]

Im not saying he isnt a good player. Your missing my point.

No I'm not. You're saying he's "lost on the left" and "no good on the left". He's spent 90% of his career there, he's where he is today largely through playing on the left (or occasionally right). You said he's always been ****e on the left for England when that clearly isn't true, ditto the point you made about him being sub all the time for Chelsea.

[dww]

Just for laugh lets have a look at last 3 seasons of player bought by Rafa, this is money spent by Rafa.

Last 3 seasons:

(Jovo)
MaxiPad
Glen Johnson
Alberto Aquilani
Sotirios Kyrgiakos
Phillip Degen
Andrea Dossena
Diego Cavalieri
David N'Gog
Robert Keane
Péter Gulácsi
Albert Riera
Martin Skrtel
Andrey Voronin
Krisztián Németh
Nikolay Mihaylov
Lucas Pezzini Leiva
Sebastián Eduardo Leto
Mikel San José
Fernando Torres
Yossi Shai Benayoun
Ryan Guno Babel
Daniel Pacheco
Charles Itandje
Mikel San José
Péter Gulácsi
Damien Plessis



Now i don't know how much that is spent, but Torres is the only stand out player there, Benny did ok when Rafa gave him a chance. Pacheco & Ngog time will tell. If anyone knows the figures i'd be more than curious to know, i'm too lazy. Oh Now add in the wages too!!!!!

And Hodsgon has made some bad buys thus far yup i won't argue with that, Poulsen and Konch are bad buys, whats that 8 million or something? Rafa was kamikaze is the transfer market in his last few seasons and this is why our squad has looked so bad this and last season, 95% of these players offered us nothing in productivity, flopped and drained our wage bill, is this not true? Forget Roy, nobody wanted him here, he is just a blow in and won't be here for much longer but there is no denying the problems that were here waiting for him.

You do realise that you name several kids in that list and at least two free transfers - if you did the same for any other manager it would look bad. We also sold a lot of them for a profit so it was hardly Kamikaze at all. IIRC until we finished second and clauses and renegotiations bumped it up we had the fifth highest wage bill in the division.

Also Riera was perfect for the team the season we finished second.

[danperkins]

Wasn't Reina a Rafa buy????

Yup, so was Agger, Masch & Alonso. Some class signings but not in most recent years where vital money has been blown.

[Havors]

No I'm not. You're saying he's "lost on the left" and "no good on the left". He's spent 90% of his career there, he's where he is today largely through playing on the left (or occasionally right). You said he's always been ****e on the left for England when that clearly isn't true, ditto the point you made about him being sub all the time for Chelsea.

ok

[Kenneth]

You do realise that you name several kids in that list and at least two free transfers - if you did the same for any other manager it would look bad. We also sold a lot of them for a profit so it was hardly Kamikaze at all. IIRC until we finished second and clauses and renegotiations bumped it up we had the fifth highest wage bill in the division.

Also Riera was perfect for the team the season we finished second.

The point that Rafa did poorly when buying players with an ever decreasing budget does appear to stand though. Agree, all managers make duff buys, but that list is particularly bad after some cracking bigger money buys, not a single gem or bargain (exluding youth and Torres).

Anyway, water under the bridge.

...Roy is ****.

[danperkins]

You do realise that you name several kids in that list and at least two free transfers - if you did the same for any other manager it would look bad. We also sold a lot of them for a profit so it was hardly Kamikaze at all. IIRC until we finished second and clauses and renegotiations bumped it up we had the fifth highest wage bill in the division.

Also Riera was perfect for the team the season we finished second.

Mate we are not a cattle market, these all earn wages, some massive wages , and these add up. Forget the youngsters they are a gamble every manager makes mistakes on youth, the likes of Dosenna,Keane,Riera,Aqua,Lucas,Babel etc all bought for big money, all on big wages and what did they offer us in the way of productivity? Honestly? Nothing.

All they did was drain the wage bill and do nothing else for LFC. Regardless if some of Rafa's signings over the years were his second choice etc he signed them just as Roy has to take responsibility for signing The Konch and Poulsen.

Rafa was horrific in the transfer market over the last 2 season in particular ludacrous money blown for a club in financial dire straits, Ngog aside who the jury is still out on can you name one good signing Rafa made in the last 2 whole seasons? Without going into the Aqua saga, as far as i know (not exact figure) we spent 19.4 sterling on Aqua for "1" season and he was a flop for one reason or another, it doesn't matter if we sell him and get some money back, he still gave the club nothing.

As i said we are not a cattle market, its all well and good buying players, and sure if they do't work out we can sell them and make some money back (Name of the game with youngsters) but some where along the line you have to stop and think, actually what are these players actually offering our club except draining our wage bill? There has been too many stop gap players, failed signings and wastes of money over last few seasons and it is down to Rafa there is no question of this.

I am no Rafa fan and i am certainly no Roy fan but IMO people have very short memories about what has gone on and although i blame Roy for this seasons failings and performances especially i am not forgetting who starting this rot.

P.S. riera has 7 good games for LFC at the start of the season and was awful for the rest of his time here.