Should he stay or should he go?

[Shaggy]

If you cannot see that the debt equated to us having **** all to spend, and that for **** all money, you get **** all playing talent, then really, there's no hope for you.

Collymore was slating Rafa's signings last night, saying how they werent good enough at the highest level. He picked out Lucas, Jovanovic and Maxi. Total cost? £6m.

Well obviously, if you can only spend £6m on 3 players, what the **** do you expect to get? Iniesta, Messi and Ronaldo?

How you cant see the relationship between debt & not buying quality players, is beyond me.

If i give you £300 and ask you to go and buy me a high performance car, what are you going to come back with? A pile of turd. Would you accept blame for that? Would you ****.

[5europeancups]

£9m NET SPEND PER SEASON - do you understand what those words mean?

And you expect Rafa to have built a squad with the likes of David Villa in it...

The problem is when we talk about net spend we rarely talk about outside the first team squad and Liverpool invested very heavily in the academy which up to now we can say has clearly failed on all fronts.

An Academy is supposed to convert raw talent into 1st team prospects.

The only first team prospects I see that have cemented a first team place in the last few years have been...

Insua perhaps?

Ngog perhaps?

I dont really see any exciting talent breaking though.

From a player acquisition point of view it is clear that Liverpool have had a disastrous period over the last four years.: only four decent signings.

From a point of view of retaining talent Liverpool have been very poor. two of the best midfielders in Europe have left to Barca and Real.

You can blame the previous owners but Rafa is culpable.

Liverpool have blown a fortune in the last few years and the squad is representative of the poor choice in players not the amount of money spent and that is a fact.

Besides Torres and Reina, which other two purchases would be worthy of a great Liverpool team? ( and I wouldnt put either of them infront of Rushie or Clemence)

[Lecter]

The problem is when we talk about net spend we rarely talk about outside the first team squad and Liverpool invested very heavily in the academy which up to now we can say has clearly failed on all fronts.

An Academy is supposed to convert raw talent into 1st team prospects.

The only first team prospects I see that have cemented a first team place in the last few years have been...

Insua perhaps?

Ngog perhaps?

I dont really see any exciting talent breaking though.

From a player acquisition point of view it is clear that Liverpool have had a disastrous period over the last four years.: only four decent signings.

From a point of view of retaining talent Liverpool have been very poor. two of the best midfielders in Europe have left to Barca and Real.

You can blame the previous owners but Rafa is culpable.

Liverpool have blown a fortune in the last few years and the squad is representative of the poor choice in players not the amount of money spent and that is a fact.

Besides Torres and Reina, which other two purchases would be worthy of a great Liverpool team? ( and I wouldnt put either of them infront of Rushie or Clemence)

All the nett spend figures I've seen have included the academy signings that have been anything more than nominal fees (say £250 K)

[Will]

The problem is when we talk about net spend we rarely talk about outside the first team squad and Liverpool invested very heavily in the academy which up to now we can say has clearly failed on all fronts.

An Academy is supposed to convert raw talent into 1st team prospects.

The only first team prospects I see that have cemented a first team place in the last few years have been...

Insua perhaps?

Ngog perhaps?

I dont really see any exciting talent breaking though.

From a player acquisition point of view it is clear that Liverpool have had a disastrous period over the last four years.: only four decent signings.

From a point of view of retaining talent Liverpool have been very poor. two of the best midfielders in Europe have left to Barca and Real.

You can blame the previous owners but Rafa is culpable.

Liverpool have blown a fortune in the last few years and the squad is representative of the poor choice in players not the amount of money spent and that is a fact.

Besides Torres and Reina, which other two purchases would be worthy of a great Liverpool team? ( and I wouldnt put either of them infront of Rushie or Clemence)

£9million NET a season isn't a fortune. We spent more under Moores than Hicks and Gillett

[Shaggy]

Net spend is literally the bottom line.

[timmokay]

See you Thursday evening about 8:00 then

Wouldn't be surprised

[PTP]

it's mental - just had this posted on facebook by a blue

Please 8 games in...give him a chance. Whether you like it or not, he's had nothing to spend, a boardroom meltdown, constant speculation about his job, bewildering attitudes amongst the players - of which many are no better than average any...way...

The club was and still is a big mess and he's come in to that a little blind. I'm sure he knew it would be a challenge but I don't think even the top managers could have anticipated the state that the club is in.

Give him a season, it's not like you'd be losing anything because any realist knows that silverware is off the agenda, and judge him then - bearing in mind that he's had nothing compared to what Rafa had in terms if funding. He's inherited a dysfunctional team that's going to take a lot of work to put right. Torres has to go though, Distin out paced him yesterday and I thought he looked disinterested the whole game. Sad because I rate him and I'm an Evertonian

no i said it another thread or maybe this one - forget about who signed who, forget about the ownership saga - lets just look at the players and were we are.

On paper - our starting XI and in fact our squad, even if i was being unbiased and harsh on Liverpool - is as good as any squad in the league other than

Arsenal
Chelsea
Man City
Spurs
Man Utd

- we have, on paper, a stronger squad, that surely noone could disagree with than Aston Villa, Everton, Blackburn, Bolton, Wolves, West Ham, Stoke, blackpool, fulham, wigan, birmingham etc etc

yet, when it comes down to it - so far 8 games in the league (plus 4 or 5 europa and cup games) - we cannot compete on match day with any of them!!

WTF has happened.

This squad should be, even with the tough start we had, should have at least 9 points and sitting 11th in the table!!

Even then, people would be saying,...hmm thats pretty ****, hodgsons got his work cut out if he wants to stay, but at least we have something to buid from

we're 19th!! thanks to goal ****ing difference - every other team in the league including West Ham who are bottom, have at least put in one performance! He haven't put in one.....hodgson himself admits that yesterdays 2nd half was our best performance so far!! - we were ****ing wank and i don't think we ever looked like getitng back in the game or troubling Everton!

I agree the players have to look at themselves and take some responsibility but ultimatley the buck stops at the manager - and i think it's obvious that hodgson can't get them playing.

So anyone who is still pro hodgson - what do you suggest we do.....

Sack - reina/gerrard/torres/cole/agger/carragher/skrtel/lucas/jovanovic/babel/ngog/johnson/ and let hodgson go out and sign luke ****ing young, carlton cole and Zoltan Gera?

[Neil Young]

F*cking blue****e. Tell him to mind his own f*cking business.

[Craig_H]

All the nett spend figures I've seen have included the academy signings that have been anything more than nominal fees (say £250 K)

Nice and efficient way to put Tom back in his box.

[Shaggy]

Blues hate Rafa so much it's hilarious. Two reasons - we beat them all the time under him, and he was reported to have called them a small club (when he actually didn't but who gives a **** about reality eh?)

[danperkins]

£9m NET SPEND PER SEASON - do you understand what those words mean?

And you expect Rafa to have built a squad with the likes of David Villa in it...

Unless you have a sugar daddy every club sells to buy at some point. Rafa had to contend will financial constraints, this isn't breaking news. Some of the choices he had were second choices, forgetting all this for just one second.

He "STILL" bought all this flops, are you not getting this? Millions wasted in failed transfers and wages. You give Hodsgon the same criticism for buying Konch and Poulsen, but Hodsgon had even less money and less time and what was his net spent this season? Now add that to a squad who finished 7th and the loss of Mascherano at the end of the window.

Bit of balance here Craig do you understand that word? Cant be one rule for Rafa and another for Roy. I have no love for either manager and have no interest in defending Roy as he has been a calamity but i write a list of transfers that Rafa bought, one has been a success or a stand out, those are the real facts, and inevitably those are the players that Roy Hodsgon, failure or not has had to deal with.

[Lecter]

Blues hate Rafa so much it's hilarious. Two reasons - we beat them all the time under him, and he was reported to have called them a small club (when he actually didn't but who gives a **** about reality eh?)

The more pressing issue is the general love in from the oppositino over Hodgson

Sure sign that hes not good enough for us when you have Phil Neville going on about him being a nice bloke who will get it right

[danperkins]

I actually dont believe the squad is as poor as some believe, thats not to say its any great shakes but its at least as good as where we finished last season

Dont get me wrong Rafa made mistakes in the transfer market but hes also been dealt a ****ty hand at times

For instance selling Keane (not getting the money back to spend) selling Voronin and not seeing any of that either (eventhough it was a pittance)

There are major holes in our squad that haven't been addressed in years, that have got horribly exposed over last season or so. I am not denying that any manager with LFC in last few years would have had it tricky but the failed signings are there for all to see mate, and looks like Roy has kept that trend up nicely.

Keane was a joke of a signing, certainly a flop but a pawn in the war between parry & rafa, was embarrassing. Baffling signing in first place. Then you hear Rafa only wanted Keane if he could get barry Or Parry signed Keane etc, absolutely joke and Rafa really made an example out of good oul Bobbie Keane. Didn't Rafa play Voronin ahead of Keane at times or otake Keane off in 90% of games for Voronin or the likes? Now that is embarrassing any which way you look at it.

[Craig_H]

Unless you have a sugar daddy every club sells to buy at some point. Rafa had to contend will financial constraints, this isn't breaking news. Some of the choices he had were second choices, forgetting all this for just one second.

He "STILL" bought all this flops, are you not getting this? Millions wasted in failed transfers and wages. You give Hodsgon the same criticism for buying Konch and Poulsen, but Hodsgon had even less money and less time and what was his net spent this season? Now add that to a squad who finished 7th and the loss of Mascherano at the end of the window.

Bit of balance here Craig do you understand that word? Cant be one rule for Rafa and another for Roy. I have no love for either manager and have no interest in defending Roy as he has been a calamity but i write a list of transfers that Rafa bought, one has been a success or a stand out, those are the real facts, and inevitably those are the players that Roy Hodsgon, failure or not has had to deal with.

You're utterly clueless. Nobody's asking for a sugar daddy, but £9m is bull****. You think others had to cope with the same?

Average net spend per season 2006-2010 (figures accurate as of 10th August 2010):
Man City £65.8m
Spurs £16.5m
Villa £16.5m
Sunderland £13.6m
Liverpool £9.4m
Chelsea £2.6m
Man Utd £0.6m
Arsenal IN PROFIT £6m

Chelsea had already spend some £200m and were set. The mancs had already had their years of spending £30m on a player, and doing it on a few occasions. Is it any wonder Villa, City and Spurs overtook us??

[Will]

You're utterly clueless. Nobody's asking for a sugar daddy, but £9m is bull****. You think others had to cope with the same?

Average net spend per season 2006-2010 (figures accurate as of 10th August 2010):
Man City £65.8m
Spurs £16.5m
Villa £16.5m
Sunderland £13.6m
Liverpool £9.4m
Chelsea £2.6m
Man Utd £0.6m
Arsenal IN PROFIT £6m

Chelsea had already spend some £200m and were set. The mancs had already had their years of spending £30m on a player, and doing it on a few occasions. Is it any wonder Villa, City and Spurs overtook us??

The reason United is so low is becouse of the outrageous ammount the sold Ronaldo to Real for. Spot on with everything you said though i was slightly suprised with the Chelsera figure but as you said spent some £200million as Jose took over.