Two derbies

[danperkins]

Relax boys i'm not disagreeig with you, i've already agreed with Lec about this

We passed the ball around our defence like clowns last season, lot of posession but in the wrong areas. Carra,Skrtel,Lucas & Maschall guilty of it. Sideways,Sideways,Backward,Backward and then hoof giving posession away, how many times did we see this last season too!!??

This is not a knew thing. I am not denying that Roy's tactics are negative and that they invite teams onto us thats blatantly obvious to everyone watching LFC at the moment, just saying that we haven't played good football in quite some time. I've already agreed with Lec that under Rafa we played higher up the pitch so what the **** are yez talking about? Jesus that about blow things out of proportion.

Why the does everything have to be considered a personal attack on Rafa? And where did i say we played the same under Roy as we did Rafa?

[danperkins]

What LDP don't seem to understand at all is that every team that have a fantastic attacking play have that because they have a fantastic defensive play to build up the attacks from.

Barcelona is a fantastic attacking team because of their fantastic defensive play. Without the fantastic ball winning tactic they would be pretty team to watch but would most probably win nothing.

It's thanks to that they win the ball back so quickly that they get a lot of possession and create a lot of chances.

We had almost as much possession in our home games as teams as Barcelona, Arsenal etc....

We had that thanks to that we hunted down the opponent all over the pitch, just like Barcelona. The difference between us with Rafa and Barcelona is really only down to that they had better attacking players and more creative players.

Our tactic with Rafa and Barcelona's tactic are almost the same. Win back the ball back as soon as possible and build the attacking play thanks to that.

The defensive play will ALWAYS be the reason to a good attacking play. You simply can't only have a good attacking play, then you would win nothing.

Jesus we really have completely contrasting views on football in general. Thank christ!

[Arn]

Relax boys i'm not disagreeig with you, i've already agreed with Lec about this

We passed the ball around our defence like clowns last season, lot of posession but in the wrong areas. Carra,Skrtel,Lucas & Maschall guilty of it. Sideways,Sideways,Backward,Backward and then hoof giving posession away, how many times did we see this last season too!!??

This is not a knew thing. I am not denying that Roy's tactics are negative and that they invite teams onto us thats blatantly obvious to everyone watching LFC at the moment, just saying that we haven't played good football in quite some time. I've already agreed with Lec that under Rafa we played higher up the pitch so what the **** are yez talking about? Jesus that about blow things out of proportion.

Why the does everything have to be considered a personal attack on Rafa?

It's probably because you say things like this that simply is pure bull****.

We play ****e football and have done for years

We played bad football last season but that is one season. We played fantastic football one year before, the 08-09 season. Probably the best football in the league. The football we played the last months that season was simply breathtaking. To then say that we played **** for years is simply bull****. You know that so why say a thing like that?

[Arn]

Jesus we really have completely contrasting views on football in general. Thank christ!

So why is Barcelona dominating almost every game? Why is Spain dominating in almost every game?

The simple answer is that they win the ball back very early and get a lot of possession thanks to that. Many teams have an excellent pass and move game but don't have the defensive play to back that up. That means less possession and that of course means that the opponent will create more chances because of that and score more goals.

Without a good defense you are nothing.

[Craig_H]

So why is Barcelona dominating almost every game? Why is Spain dominating in almost every game?

The simple answer is that they win the ball back very early and get a lot of possession thanks to that. Many teams have an excellent pass and move game but don't have the defensive play to back that up. That means less possession and that of course means that the opponent will create more chances because of that and score more goals.

Without a good defense you are nothing.

Totally agree about winning the ball back quickly and keeping it - i wouldnt describe it as a 'good defensive play' as such though, because Barca and Spain are sides which arent often required to do THAT much defending, due to the amount of possession they keep. I know where you're coming from though.

They both press EXTREMELY high up the park though and relentlessly. You watch Barca or Spain, and whilst everyone raves about the lovely football, it ALL starts with constant pressing of the opposition and it forces errors and concession of possession. It takes serious levels of discipline and fitness, but they both do it superbly.

In contrast, we dont press at all, which gives the opposition plenty of the ball and the more they have, the more likely it is that they'll do something with it to hurt us - and they have been.

[danperkins]

It's probably because you say things like this that simply is pure bull****.



We played bad football last season but that is one season. We played fantastic football one year before, the 08-09 season. Probably the best football in the league. The football we played the last months that season was simply breathtaking. To then say that we played **** for years is simply bull****. You know that so why say a thing like that?

What am i saying thats bull****? Mate your opinion is about as balanced as a one legged alcoholic. Your leaping to the defense of something thats not there.

I didn't say that we play the same under Roy than we did under Rafa so why are people saying that? I'm talking about playing "football" what the hell are you talking about I'm not saying tight,defensive,cautious football isn't effective or doesn't win things, sure look at Mourinho.

You always seem to want to drag things into a Rafa conversation, so i'll humour you. Are you honestly telling me that under Rafa we played lovely football? Honestly?

First and foremost under Rafa it was solid and functional, things planned to every detail and a workmen like attitude, closing the space and not giving opposition time. Apart from this being blatantly obvious, evidence of this is in th 2 DM's formation Rafa liked, changing Lucas form a box to box to a DM, and changing Kuyt from a CF into a RM, because of his work rate and defensive qualities and how we lined up, tactics,formations, subs.

We played great towards the end of the title challenging season because we were let off the leash, Free flowing football and we happened to have 2 of the best players in world football in Torres and Gerrard as our forward partnership, possibly one of the scariest partnerships of all time, and we didn't play the best football in the league in those last 3 months, United did and they won they league because of it.

Can honestly tell me that when you see players like Carra/Skrtel/Kyriagkos/Lucas/Konch/Poulsen/Babel/ etc on the ball that they look comfortable and tachnically assured in poession? You you do then you are deluded before recall.

[Arn]

Totally agree about winning the ball back quickly and keeping it - i wouldnt describe it as a 'good defensive play' as such though, because Barca and Spain are sides which arent often required to do THAT much defending, due to the amount of possession they keep. I know where you're coming from though.

They both press EXTREMELY high up the park though and relentlessly. You watch Barca or Spain, and whilst everyone raves about the lovely football, it ALL starts with constant pressing of the opposition and it forces errors and concession of possession. It takes serious levels of discipline and fitness, but they both do it superbly.

In contrast, we dont press at all, which gives the opposition plenty of the ball and the more they have, the more likely it is that they'll do something with it to hurt us - and they have been.

The same thing Rafa's Valencia and we did. The key for the system to work was to win the ball back early and press the opponent all over the pitch.

You can see a clear difference at Barcelona when Xavi isn't playing. They still win the ball back very early but don't have the brain to do something with it quickly. The system still works but isn't as good because of one player. The same thing happened to us without Xabi. The system still worked got much less effective.

[Craig_H]

You only have to look at Inter, to see that Rafa isnt a defensive coach. He likes his team to be solid but he isnt a defensive manager at all. We played some delightful stuff under him, as are Inter now.

The difference is, at Inter he has brilliant players, while at LFC he wasnt backed enough to have those kind of players to his satisfaction.

His time at Inter is already proving that, if he's backed and allowed to bring in the right players, he'll be a massive success. It's gutting that he never got the chance to work for NESV.

[danperkins]

So why is Barcelona dominating almost every game? Why is Spain dominating in almost every game?

The simple answer is that they win the ball back very early and get a lot of possession thanks to that. Many teams have an excellent pass and move game but don't have the defensive play to back that up. That means less possession and that of course means that the opponent will create more chances because of that and score more goals.

Without a good defense you are nothing.

Why well apart from a workmen like attitude they have some of the best players in the world, and they dominate games because nobody can get the bloody ball back from them. And Barca don't have a good defence mate, has worked out ok for them in Europe eh?

P.S. When you have Messi/Villa/Iniesta/Xavi/Masch/Pedro to name a few. Thats at least 4 players that are in the top 10 best players in the world, "in their starting line up alone"

[barnes10]

all the best teams defend from the front...

[Craig_H]

The same thing Rafa's Valencia and we did. The key for the system to work was to win the ball back early and press the opponent all over the pitch.

You can see a clear difference at Barcelona when Xavi isn't playing. They still win the ball back very early but don't have the brain to do something with it quickly. The system still works but isn't as good because of one player. The same thing happened to us without Xabi. The system still worked got much less effective.

It's one of football's most obvious and simple rules (yet Roy doesnt seem to get it ) - you put the opposition under pressure, and they will make mistakes and lose the ball. Worst case scenario, you press them and their pass/shot doesnt come off as they would have liked.

It's so ****ing obvious.

[barnes10]

You only have to look at Inter, to see that Rafa isnt a defensive coach. He likes his team to be solid but he isnt a defensive manager at all. We played some delightful stuff under him, as are Inter now.

The difference is, at Inter he has brilliant players, while at LFC he wasnt backed enough to have those kind of players to his satisfaction.

His time at Inter is already proving that, if he's backed and allowed to bring in the right players, he'll be a massive success. It's gutting that he never got the chance to work for NESV.

his time at inter will drive us mad in the end i think.

he will replicate a crushing machine like we saw at valencia and in the first half of 2009.

if our next manager is properly backed then i hope theyre as good as rafa tactically.

[Craig_H]

Why we apart from a workmen like attitude they have some of the best players in the world, and they dominate games because nobody can get the bloody ball back from them. And Barca don't have a good defence mate, has worked out ok for them in Europe eh?

P.S. When you have Messi/Villa/Iniesta/Xavi/Masch/Pedro to name a few. Thats at least 4 players that are in the top 10 best players in the world, "in their starting line up alone"

How do you think they get it in the first place?

High pressing is one of the most obvious traits of the way Barcelona play. You seriously telling me it's something you havent noticed in their game?

[danperkins]

his time at inter will drive us mad in the end i think.

he will replicate a crushing machine like we saw at valencia and in the first half of 2009.

if our next manager is properly backed then i hope theyre as good as rafa tactically.

Rafa has had a mixed bag so far at Inter but will improve no doubts, especially with that world class squad

[danperkins]

How do you think they get it in the first place?

High pressing is one of the most obvious traits of the way Barcelona play. You seriously telling me it's something you havent noticed in their game?

Em where did i say otherwise or disagree with that Craig? Like i said in post above, they have great workmenlike attitude. But they dominate/frustrate teams games because of their posession first and foremost. Helps with world class player literred around your starting 11 too